King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[chrisw]

LORINC: Olivia Chow's next big move - Spacing Toronto

It’s five months today — July 12 — since Olivia Chow was sworn in as mayor and I think it’s safe to say she has delivered the goods by cutting a multi-billion funding deal with Queen’s Park that sets the stage for the annual budget drama that begins after New Year’s. There have also beenContinue...

spacing.ca

Chow, thanks to the provincial Tories’ strong mayor powers, has far more executive authority than her predecessor. If she wanted, she could pull the plug on the King Street transit priority corridor and move instead to ban all cars from one end of the core to the other.

What could go wrong? After all, we know all too well how the alternative worked out.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Banning cars entirely is not really practical - but banning through-running of taxis and implementing stronger prevention methods of through-running vehicles will go a long way.

 

[milkycontent]

Banning cars entirely is not really practical

yes it is

 

[T3G]

yes it is

I do not think there will ever be the political appetite to get rid of cars anywhere in Canada, wholesale, in your natural lifespan or mine.

 

[evandyk]

Banning cars from King Street is certainly practical in that it could easily be done and would have little lasting negative impact on any individual car driver. It is impractical in that there is no political will among leaders in Toronto to do it, and lots of political will to fight against it on a variety of specious grounds.

 

[milkycontent]

I do not think there will ever be the political appetite to get rid of cars anywhere in Canada, wholesale, in your natural lifespan or mine.

Not with that attitude!

 

[T3G]

Not with that attitude!

What has attitude got to do with it? If I start banging the ban cars drum, do you really think that is going to change anything about the country's political realities?

I would also like to see cars banned from King, but the reality, whether you like it or not, is that cagers who view any kind of restrictions on cars as a Nazi-esque attack on their freedoms are running the show here, and they will ensure there will NEVER be a wholesale ban on cars.

 

[innsertnamehere]

yes it is

there are driveways on King. If not for that, yes, it would be fine.

 

[milkycontent]

My point is: just do it. If people don't like it, too bad. They'll get over it. Or they'll stay mad. I don't care
If there is a driveway here or there, make an accommodation if its reasonable but it should be the exception not the rule.
We keep falling all over ourselves to find reasons not to do it. It works everywhere else in the world!
Just do it!

 

[Cambry Ardship]

Restricting private vehicles from a small stretch of King Street in Toronto is very, very, very different from banning cars "wholesale" across the entirety of the country.

It's clear at this point something needs to change and restricting cars costs approximately zero dollars which makes it probably the best transit intervention possible in the city at this time.

 

[evandyk]

Luckily.... the only thing discussed on this thread is restricting private vehicles from a small stretch of King St in Toronto. In fact, it's only 2.6 km out of a total of 5400 km of roads in the city, or less than 0.05% of the road space in Toronto.

 

[T3G]

I was replying to the quote in the article that was attached above:

and move instead to ban all cars from one end of the core to the other.

I think banning cars from one segment of one street is doable, if controversial, but I did not think this quote was stopping at that.

 

[duty free]

unpopular opinion, but I don't really see the point of transit malls in general. the streetcar won't move quicker, it will actually move much slower through a transit mall, nor will it move more people.

pedestrian malls on the other hand i totally get. one on Yonge street again would be amazing. they are a far better use of space. Toronto's got to upgrade the 504 to something like the OL in my opinion. the demand is there to move at least 250k per week day.

another unpopular opinion is that streetcars would be more far effective if King/Queen were one way streets due to the width constraints. half the street could be devoted to streetcars + platforms + wider sidewalks. the other half could have a left turn lane, a bike lane for both directions, one lane of through traffic and loading zones for delivery trucks.

 

[T3G]

unpopular opinion, but I don't really see the point of transit malls in general. the streetcar won't move quicker, it will actually move much slower through a transit mall, nor will it move more people.

How can a streetcar operating on a transit mall be slower than if it was operating in mixed traffic? Perhaps late at night...

Toronto's got to upgrade the 504 to something like the OL in my opinion. the demand is there to move at least 250k per week day.

Unfortunately, downtowners, like suburbanites, need to learn the lesson that there is not an infinite amount of money for building subways. A transit mall is a quick, cheap, easy way of improving service* for thousands of people that doesn't cost billions.

* Provided there is enforcement. It seems to have collapsed in recent times, but back when the pilot was first implemented it was quite effective IMO.

another unpopular opinion is that streetcars would be more far effective if King/Queen were one way streets due to the width constraints. half the street could be devoted to streetcars + platforms + wider sidewalks. the other half could have a left turn lane, a bike lane for both directions, one lane of through traffic and loading zones for delivery trucks.

I don't follow this logic. How does the presence of wider sidewalks, bike lanes, or loading zones make streetcars more efficient?

Queen and King are too far apart in the core to make a one way street combo effective.

 

[duty free]

How can a streetcar operating on a transit mall be slower than if it was operating in mixed traffic? Perhaps late at night...


Unfortunately, downtowners, like suburbanites, need to learn the lesson that there is not an infinite amount of money for building subways. A transit mall is a quick, cheap, easy way of improving service* for thousands of people that doesn't cost billions.

* Provided there is enforcement. It seems to have collapsed in recent times, but back when the pilot was first implemented it was quite effective IMO.


I don't follow this logic. How does the presence of wider sidewalks, bike lanes, or loading zones make streetcars more efficient?

Queen and King are too far apart in the core to make a one way street combo effective.

1. trams are slower in transit malls because of safety concerns for pedestrians. they have to operate a slower speeds for that reason.

2. i never want to hear the sentence we don't have enough $ to build higher order transit. it's a lame excuse and isn't congruent with reality. why are the expanding and building more rapid transit than ever before? must be out of money.

3. streetcar would have a ROW if they were one way. unfortunately that isn't possible with 60 foot wide streets downtown and two way traffic.

4. luckily there's two one way streets in between them called Adelaide and Richmond. maybe they could also run streetcars across their entire length.