King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[TOareaFan]

4,500 tickets issued since launch

https://twitter.com/benspurr/status/982375516983488512?s=21

 

[MetroMan]

4,500 tickets issued since launch

https://twitter.com/benspurr/status/982375516983488512?s=21

I see at least a half dozen to a dozen cars breaking the rules in a single 30 second light cycle in just one intersection. 4,500 is very low for the entire 5 months, considering there was an enforcement blitz at the beginning. More than that should be getting ticketed every month.

 

[steveintoronto]

Here's the Star's copy:
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...o-drivers-disobeying-king-st-pilot-rules.html

Down there this afternoon, I realized there's a Red Light Camera at Spadina. Must be new, as it wasn't there in August:
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Sp...d925d1a19e9d42!8m2!3d43.6454419!4d-79.3951458

 

[W. K. Lis]

I see at least a half dozen to a dozen cars breaking the rules in a single 30 second light cycle in just one intersection. 4,500 is very low for the entire 5 months, considering there was an enforcement blitz at the beginning. More than that should be getting ticketed every month.

Do they stop one at a time, or do they pull over EVERYONE?

I'm guessing if one sees a cop pulling over a car ahead, they go straight. If they see a cop car, they turn right.

 

[pstogios]

Down there this afternoon, I realized there's a Red Light Camera at Spadina. Must be new, as it wasn't there in August:
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Spadina+Ave+&+King+St+W,+Toronto,+ON+M5V/@43.6454114,-79.3951494,3a,75y,265.76h,94.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szhAqzW7frp8MHmZA2dPYrw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x882b34d97ce36609:0x48d925d1a19e9d42!8m2!3d43.6454419!4d-79.3951458

If you’re talking about the camera in front of the LCBO, it’s been there for months, much before August 2017.

 

[MetroMan]

Do they stop one at a time, or do they pull over EVERYONE?

I'm guessing if one sees a cop pulling over a car ahead, they go straight. If they see a cop car, they turn right.

I've seen one cop pull over 5 cars at once. They just point at them and tell them to pull over in front of the other cars that were already pulled over.

 

[MetroMan]

Down there this afternoon, I realized there's a Red Light Camera at Spadina. Must be new, as it wasn't there in August:
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Spadina+Ave+&+King+St+W,+Toronto,+ON+M5V/@43.6454114,-79.3951494,3a,75y,265.76h,94.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szhAqzW7frp8MHmZA2dPYrw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x882b34d97ce36609:0x48d925d1a19e9d42!8m2!3d43.6454419!4d-79.3951458

It was installed in the Summer. It's in the Google Streetview if you look carefully.

 

[TransitBart]

The problem with cameras is that they can't prove who is driving the vehicle. Owning the vehicle vs. actually driving it are 2 different things.

This is never an issue with photo radar or red light cams/ Why here?

 

[steveintoronto]

"Red Light Camera"

It was installed in the Summer. It's in the Google Streetview if you look carefully.

That's for Spadina. I'm talking King, and the sign that I noticed yesterday was "new" and on the NW corner lights facing westbound traffic on King. I was rushed yesterday, but will be down there again in the next few days. I'll take a pic of the sign and camera if I can find it. I'm curious as to the technical ability to capture more than just red-light infractions.

 

[steveintoronto]

This is never an issue with photo radar or red light cams/ Why here?

And to take that further, it's not a problem with toll charges on highways either. Which maybe isn't a bad idea to apply to King, since some feel that the 'chosen few scofflaws aren't a problem'. If they need to be there in such a demanding way, make them pay. A permit system is used in other nations' cities for local access. We transit users are already paying for that access. With time and money. And lives in some cases.

Swanston Street and Bourke Street Mall permits
http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/par...s/swanston-street-and-bourke-street-mall.aspx

From the site linked above: ('Cr' is Aussie for 'councillor')

Melbourne walks the talk on transport policy
Thursday, 5 April 2018
Dangerous pedestrian overcrowding, congestion choked roads and a crippled public transport system could become reality without a plan to address how Melbourne’s fast growing population commute in and around the city.
In a bid to adapt at the same pace as growing transport pressures, the City of Melbourne will today release the first two of eight transport discussion papers to inform a new Transport Strategy for the municipality.

First on the agenda is the city's most important mode of transport; walking.

Chair of the Transport portfolio Councillor Nicolas Frances Gilley said the Walking and City Space transport strategy discussion papers invite debate around how we use and allocate space and make it safer and easier for people to get around the city on foot.

"Pedestrian crowd crush is a big issue in Melbourne and with the number of people in our city set to grow by 50 per cent in the next 20 years, we need to think about how we address that," Cr Frances Gilley said.

"Overcrowding on footpaths poses a serious threat to pedestrian safety: on Spencer Street alone, one pedestrian was killed and 31 have been injured in the past five years.

"Every hour during the morning peak, 15,000 pedestrians cross the Spencer and Collins Street intersection outside Southern Cross Station which is five times the number of people in cars, yet cars are given twice the amount of time as pedestrians to pass through."

In order to draft a strategy that improves how Melbournians experience moving around their city, feedback on how to alter the pedestrian environment is sought.

"It could be changing the light sequence, removing on street car parking to make more room for pedestrians, closing certain stretches of road to traffic at particular periods during the day, as we do on Little Collins Street at lunchtime for example. We want to hear what you think," Cr Frances Gilley said.

"Allocating the majority of space to cars when most people walk or take public transport is not sustainable. We are a walking city: within our CBD 89 per cent of all trips in the city's core are made on foot and if we want to encourage more people to walk more often so we need to make it safer and easier to do so.[...]

http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/new...ourne-walks-the-talk-on-transport-policy.aspx

 

[steveintoronto]

If you’re talking about the camera in front of the LCBO, it’s been there for months, much before August 2017.

I'm not, I'm talking about the "new" sign (posted prominently next to the nw corner lights) facing westbound traffic on King.

 

[pstogios]

I'm not, I'm talking about the "new" sign (posted prominently next to the nw corner lights) facing westbound traffic on King.

Ah, I see. It would be awesome if this could detect the ridiculous and recurrent intersection blockers as I’ve been ranting about here (and nobody seems to give two cents about, strangely).

 

[steveintoronto]

Ah, I see. It would be awesome if this could detect the ridiculous and recurrent intersection blockers as I’ve been ranting about here (and nobody seems to give two cents about, strangely).

lol...well I was down there this afternoon, and I offer an apology, the new Red Light Camera isn't at Spadina and King, I must have seen it at another corner ostensibly along King, but yes, there were tailbacks blocking the intersection when I was there. And they've been obvious at other intersections along King, some being caused by streetcars themselves, which only adds to the need for a sensor and intelligence based intersection light and streetcar control system, Pilot or not.

Even as Red Light Cameras are now configured, they would catch those motorists who try to sneak through the intersection behind streetcars. Technically, if those motorists have entered the intersection before the light turns red (and in some interpretations, even during an amber is illegal), then they retain the right of way until the intersection is cleared. That might invoke the 'entering an intersection before it's clear to do so' bylaw legislation though. That would be City, and under the Pilot section of the HTA, the province could assign their evidence to the City on that. There's massive amounts that could be done under the Pilot section of the HTA.

CBC INVESTIGATES
Toronto police rarely ticket drivers who block intersections in gridlocked city
Toronto police didn't ticket a single driver for blocking intersections in 2013
John Rieti · CBC News · Posted: Dec 21, 2015 5:00 AM ET | Last Updated: December 21, 2015

In a city where gridlock is a major political issue, Toronto police rarely hand out tickets to motorists who block busy intersections, CBC News has learned.

Police don't publish the numbers, but a freedom of information request found that the force has filed fewer than 300 tickets for blocking intersections in the city in the last five years — a number that will seem low to anyone who has spent any time observing traffic at busy Toronto intersections.

In 2013, police didn't issue a single ticket to a motorist for failing to clear an intersection that has traffic signals.

By May of 2015, however, Toronto police had handed out 103 tickets for the first five months of the year — each of which costs the driver $115. That number represents a big jump, but it's still less than one ticket per day in a city where it's common to see vehicles blocking intersections, especially during rush hour in the downtown core.

Mayor John Tory specifically addressed the drivers of those vehicles in a video posted on the police website, telling them: "You may think just getting into the intersection is going to speed up your commute, but it's going to cause gridlock.

"And we're fighting gridlock right now."

Const. Clint Stibbe, of Toronto police's traffic services division, admits the number appears low.

"Does it happen? Yes it does. Is it a problem for the city? Absolutely," Stibbe told CBC News.

He says the recent jump in tickets issued over the past two years might have something to do with one police division focusing on vehicles blocking intersections.

But Stibbe said it's difficult for police to crack down on the offence. Officers have to pull over those who block intersections if they want to write them a ticket — something that would slow traffic even further.

Further, red light cameras don't capture the offence, Stibbe said, and there's also the possibility that offending motorists get hit with other tickets like making a prohibited turn.

Stibbe also points out this is more than a cops-versus-drivers issue, as blocked intersections and sidewalks also put pedestrians at risk. Often, he said, cars will wind up blocking a crosswalk, which puts pedestrians in jeopardy as they're forced to choose between walking out into traffic behind the car or squeezing in front where they may get hit if the car moves forward.

There is a "tremendous number" of pedestrian collisions downtown, Stibbe said, and vehicles blocking intersections are a contributing factor.
[...]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-gridlock-tickets-1.3368510

Interesting in itself, but the hypocrisy of the City mandarins to this, to the the Star's speeding piece today, and many other aspects of road 'safety' is a huge part of the problem. Read the entire article linked above to see how they treat these situations. Is it any wonder that Toronto is "car city"?

The same intransigence by transportation staff to change is apparent here:
APRIL 6, 2018
Inside the slow process of speeding up measures to slow down drivers on Toronto’s streets

 

[steveintoronto]

Ah, I see. It would be awesome if this could detect the ridiculous and recurrent intersection blockers as I’ve been ranting about here (and nobody seems to give two cents about, strangely).

Steve Munro's latest installment on the Pilot is up, and a lot of folks won't be liking the points that he not only makes, but documents.

One of his comments directly relevant to the "intersection blockers":

Severe congestion is evident approaching University Avenue and also at Spadina Avenue in the latter part of the hour from 5-6 pm (17:00 to 18:00). The problem begins with a backlog of cars approaching Jarvis, and once these move off through the pilot area, they encounter delays at traffic signals because it is common for only one car to clear the intersection on a cycle while the car ahead serves the farside stop. (This was also a problem for nearside stops before the pilot because of the TTC practice that a car must be at the stop before operators open the doors. Combined with traffic signal delays, this can throttle the rate at which bunched cars can clear an intersection.)
[...]

https://stevemunro.ca/2018/04/08/king-street-update-march-2018-data-part-i/#more-19939

 

[dowlingm]

This is never an issue with photo radar or red light cams/ Why here?

Do you mean here as in Toronto or here as in Ontario? Because it’s definitely a province wide thing in my opinion, otherwise Mike Harris wouldn’t have bothered killing photo radar.

In general, the motorist expects to be given a sporting chance to break the law. Look at the opposition to fully unmarked police cars on the highway etc. So emissions/vehicle testing is bad, photo radar is bad, increased fines for losing a ticket appeal in court is bad, police checkpoints for insurance and valid vehicle registration are bad. Ireland has all of those things and must seem like a totalitarian dystopia to auto journalists and Toronto Sun columnists.