King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[micheal_can]

I personally think the silent majority are those taking the subway in or GO Train (Scarborough, Etobicoke, certain parts of North York, few sprinkled downtown). The same ones that demanded the removal of the vehicle tax. The ones it's mainly serving (Liberty Village, Parkdale/High Park/Roncesvalles/Leslieville/Beaches) are Liberal/Left voters. But there will be more of those than the Ford/Vehicle Tax haters to make the difference in the next election.

I keep hearing about this 'Transit' corridor. Now I haven't traveled a great deal, but the places I have gone to (Asia, Argentina, Paris, US Cities), I haven't seen anything like this. Nor anybody I've spoke to regarding countries they've visited or came from. Can someone give specific examples and pictures of these "Transit Malls" that seem to be talking points being passed around?. I have seen some pictures of it, maybe Belgium?

Look to Calgary. They have one.

 

[micheal_can]

Two things

1. we really need to stop segregating people (even if you are referring to yourself) into the categories of driver/transit user/cyclist/pedestrian......the truth is we all, to varying degrees, use different methods to get around.
2. assuming you were just short forming and identifying as someone who uses the car more than the other modes....I agree wholeheartedly....I also use a car more than any of the other 3 modes but can easily see that, in the case of King Street, something had to be done for the vast majority of the corridor's users and, thus far, this pilot seems to have hit all the right notes. It does not mean we should be doing this on every street......but it means that King moved more people by streetcar than any other E-W street and a solution was at hand that would make those commutes smoother/faster.....and applying that really makes sense.

I am a motorist. Once I get close to the city, I try to park my truck and take transit into the city.

 

[blixtex]

You may just want to travel to Wikipedia and look up Transit Mall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_mall

Just as I figured. It must have been derived from armchair Wikipedia quarter backing. I'm looking at it, and they're mostly on a less busy side street. For example, the one in Seoul? It is no where near resembles a major artery. In the main business/financial/district, there is nothing remotely close to it. There would be an uproar if there was.

By reading it and transferring that to Toronto as "gee, this country does it" is not reflective how it really is. First, you can't get a sense of scale. Second, by looking at some of these, it is the equivalent of a block or a few blocks and in a already enclosed type space (think of St. George at U of T). Again, it seems nobody can actually provide a thorough "I've been there and this is how it works there, and should work here" realistic comparison vs blanket "I read that online" approach.

Portland seems to the darling of this. From what I know of Portland it is hardly the financial, dense city. Also, Minneapolis, one side is bus, while the other is cars. And these are notably behind Toronto regarding its status as a global financial district/hub.

Again, I'm not against 'transit malls' per se, but this whole let's block off a huge % of the downtown financial core and enforce it 24/7? Is overkill and not optimal for other traffic, business owners in the evenings/weekends and police.

 

[ADRM]

Just as I figured. It must have been derived from armchair Wikipedia quarter backing. I'm looking at it, and they're mostly on a less busy side street. For example, the one in Seoul? It is no where near resembles a major artery. In the main business/financial/district, there is nothing remotely close to it. There would be an uproar if there was.

By reading it and transferring that to Toronto as "gee, this country does it" is not reflective how it really is. First, you can't get a sense of scale. Second, by looking at some of these, it is the equivalent of a block or a few blocks and in a already enclosed type space (think of St. George at U of T). Again, it seems nobody can actually provide a thorough "I've been there and this is how it works there, and should work here" realistic comparison vs blanket "I read that online" approach.

Portland seems to the darling of this. From what I know of Portland it is hardly the financial, dense city. Also, Minneapolis, one side is bus, while the other is cars. And these are notably behind Toronto regarding its status as a global financial district/hub.

Again, I'm not against 'transit malls' per se, but this whole let's block off a huge % of the downtown financial core and enforce it 24/7? Is overkill and not optimal for other traffic, business owners in the evenings/weekends and police.

I'm going to be polite and just say you really need to take @DSC up on the suggestion to read a little more into this before posting again, perhaps even beyond the scope of that particular Wikipedia entry.

 

[TOareaFan]

Just as I figured. It must have been derived from armchair Wikipedia quarter backing. I'm looking at it, and they're mostly on a less busy side street. For example, the one in Seoul? It is no where near resembles a major artery. In the main business/financial/district, there is nothing remotely close to it. There would be an uproar if there was.

By reading it and transferring that to Toronto as "gee, this country does it" is not reflective how it really is. First, you can't get a sense of scale. Second, by looking at some of these, it is the equivalent of a block or a few blocks and in a already enclosed type space (think of St. George at U of T). Again, it seems nobody can actually provide a thorough "I've been there and this is how it works there, and should work here" realistic comparison vs blanket "I read that online" approach.

Portland seems to the darling of this. From what I know of Portland it is hardly the financial, dense city. Also, Minneapolis, one side is bus, while the other is cars. And these are notably behind Toronto regarding its status as a global financial district/hub.

Again, I'm not against 'transit malls' per se, but this whole let's block off a huge % of the downtown financial core and enforce it 24/7? Is overkill and not optimal for other traffic, business owners in the evenings/weekends and police.

Quick visit to that page and I can only say that no one ever described Princess Street in Edinburgh as a "less busy side street"....that is all I am gonna say on this because, honestly, your postings give the impression that you might be a new member who came on here spoiling for a fight....and I am not interested.

 

[MetroMan]

While drivers are generally staying off King Street. the threat of fines doesn't seem to be deterring those who choose to drive on King. Standing at University for a few light cycles, I saw many drivers pull up to the intersections cautiously, look around then gun it across to the other side, often getting stuck behind the streetcar at the stop. No cops in the area. None. It's rush hour.

 

[TOareaFan]

One interesting side effect of the pilot is that we might be living a safer city.....just marginally, maybe with a depopulated King we now have a very efficient route for police ambulance and fire vehicles to move across the city in an E-W direction.....that can't be a bad thing...can it?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

One interesting side effect of the pilot is that we might be living a safer city.....just marginally, maybe with a depopulated King we now have a very efficient route for police ambulance and fire vehicles to move across the city in an E-W direction.....that can't be a bad thing...can it?

If you oppose the King Street Pilot, you oppose free flowing ambulances, which means you oppose saving the lives of sick children and the elderly. Do you want children to die? Why won’t anyone think of the children!?

 

[goleafsgo_chris]

If you oppose the King Street Pilot, you oppose free flowing ambulances, which means you oppose saving the lives of sick children and the elderly. Do you want children to die? Why won’t anyone think of the children!?

A lot of the arguments on both sides are dumb.

Of course you get demerit points. You get demerit points for turning left on no left turn during rush hour signs as well. Theres nothing wrong with giving demerit points for traffic infractions lol.

That being said: I would have preferred that the project allowed cars but in the right lane only, maybe with some sort of barrier or rumble strips on the left (streetcar lane). Keeping the right lane for planters and pedestrians is fucking dumb. But this is what we have, and even as someone who doesnt use transit, they clearly did need to do something about the streetcar speeds lol you cannot argue that

 

[MetroMan]

I would have preferred that the project allowed cars but in the right lane only

Where have you been for the past 20 years?

Spoiler: it didn't work.

 

[goleafsgo_chris]

Where have you been for the past 20 years?

Spoiler: it didn't work.

I could have with proper enforcement, and some degree of barriers like severe rumble strips or changing the height of the right lane relative to the left lane. Im not against the current idea (I think its better than nothing), I think its just a wasted right lane now, and I think using the lane for for planters and muskoka chairs for smokers is moronic

 

[DSC]

If you oppose the King Street Pilot, you oppose free flowing ambulances, which means you oppose saving the lives of sick children and the elderly. Do you want children to die? Why won’t anyone think of the children!?

I also expect to see fewer squirrel corpses on King (they go to and from St James Park). Count that as another win-win.

 

[drum118]

Och!! My (not mine) Pocket Book got hit today.

100's and maybe 1,000's of drivers are finding their pocketbook lighter today after driving on King St.

Saw flashing light to the east from Bay at Church St on both sides of King and with one going after someone heading west on King at Church.

2 police cars on either side of King, east of Bathurst with flashing lights and writing tickets with one car having 2 pull over at the same time. Could see more flashing light to the west on both side and no idea where they were.

Talking to one officer, he said he had already written over 50 tickets and his shift wasn't haft over.

Looking at the sign at Bathurst, it has a straight arrow with red cross it saying TTC and cabs only, yet in the short time I was there, counted close to 2 dozen cars going straight through the intersection with the 2 flashing cars.

I noticed a number of northbound cars on Bathurst making a Right Turn and there is no sign saying they can't.

The officers stated it a learning curve, but most of all, need to read the signs. One idea was having a flashing light, but having LED lights is the better way. Regardless what is done down the road, there will be driver who think nothing about a ticket since they have the money to deal with them in the first place. Again, only beginning week 2.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Maybe after a year or so, they'll add:

 

[jys]

...

So you're in the camp of 'I don't mind public transportation initiatives as long as they don't decrease the number of car lanes and have been proposed for half a century and have been studies a billion times camp'. Seriously, drivers in our city have been privileged for too long. It is clear from the congestion that low-density transportation(e.g. cars) do not solve transportation congestion issues. But guess what will, mass transportation projects like this one. And no, there is no 'war on cars'. People are simply fighting back against the war on public transportation, pedestrians and cyclists. There are plenty of transit malls around the world, including 7 Ave SW in Calgary and Bourke Street in Melbourne. As another user suggested, if you would delve slightly deeper into this topic you would realise that this project makes a lot of sense. There are simply a lot more streetcar riders on King Street than drivers, and what is wrong with (partially) closing a street for 3km when there are many other alternatives nearby. And may I remind you that this is not even a transit mall since cars are still allowed under circumstances. Previously King Street worked for nobody. Streetcars were slower than walking speeds, sidewalks were overcrowded and cars weren't moving much faster either. At least this project solved the problem for streetcar riders, provide some additional spaces for pedestrians and encouraged people to use the streetcar since they will now actually save people time.

And I agree with Doug Ford on the demerit point issue. How is this a danger to safety as a moving violation? This is a by-law. Not an HTA infraction. Similar to those 'No Right/Left turns" during rush hour to take a shortcut which do not result in a loss of demerit points.

In addition to what @goleafsgo_chris said, demerit points are by far the most fair and effective fine. Everyone has the same amount of points whether you are rich or poor and that amount is limited, so people will be sure to use them wisely.