King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[Leo_Chan]

On a somewhat related note, St. Andrew’s Church has removed most of their fence facing on to King.

View attachment 126581

It’s funny, I pass by this church several times a week but I’ve never felt compelled to go inside or even stop in front. Removing the fence instantly made it more welcoming. This could become a nice spot to sit down on the steps and have lunch or people watch.

I wonder what other changes we’ll see on King once it moves away from being a busy traffic thoroughfare. Maybe the value of some of the cheap restaurants and will go up and attract higher quality outlets with patios where there’s room.

That’s really a big difference.

 

[MetroMan]

That’s really a big difference.
View attachment 126584

I was second guessing myself whether there ever was a gate there. Thanks for confirming that I'm not crazy. It really does open up the church to King St. Would be nice if they closed Emily Street or at least made it a cobblestoned woonerf to create a sort of square around the church and invite people to enjoy the garden.

 

[Johnny Au]

Next to St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church, there's 73 Simcoe (which was formerly a house), home to the church's administration, a daycare, and Cronos/Careerleaf. I used to work for Careerleaf, in which I helped them populate their database with potential employer contacts for career board software. I was laid off.

 

[reaperexpress]

I'll make a guess that there will be NO transit priority signals, other than the vertical white bar. If they decide to use them, that is.

The TTC interpretation of that signal allows transit vehicles to turn left or right, but not go straight. It will therefore not be used anywhere other than King & Sumach where it is used currently. Even if it did mean that streetcars are permitted to go straight, installing it on signals would do nothing to speed up streetcars.

Transit priority should be judged on what the signal does (i.e. does it turn/stay green when the streetcar approaches) not what the signal looks like.

And if you want streetcars to have priority at signals, you should do something about it rather than repeating the same things incessantly on this forum of people who already agree with you. For example, contact your local representative and/or the two local representatives of the King Pilot area. People who walk, cycle and drive do this all the time, but transit riders hardly ever do, which is one of the factors which encourages the City to reduce the priority streetcars get at signals even though streetcars carry far more people than any other vehicle.

 

[MetroMan]

They've built a new transit shelter for the Portland eastbound stop. So much for non-permanent infrastructure. If they can build new shelters, they can remove the old ones.

This stop has moved pretty far from the original one at Portland to close to mid block between Portland and Brant. The westbound stop remains where it is at the NE corner of King and Brant.

There's a lot of activity on King between Brant and Bathurst tonight. The street was entirely closed down for some time. The westbound sidewalk side lane is still closed down with many big cuts in the road. Looks like an all nighter.

 

[DSC]

There's a lot of activity on King between Brant and Bathurst tonight. The street was entirely closed down for some time. The westbound sidewalk side lane is still closed down with many big cuts in the road. Looks like an all nighter.

The City are trying to deal with all the utility cut repairs and general tidying up on King before the KSP begins. They were doing the same thing at the Jarvis end of the area a few days ago.

 

[steveintoronto]

Would most of this stretch of King even need transit priority signals? It would only be streetcars going straight through the intersections.

Yes and no. Even though I'm an avid cyclist, I question the wisdom of allowing bikes to go straight through. I foresee problems, for cyclists, motor vehicles and streetcar clear running. But by saying that as a cyclist, I also apply that to taxis, who shouldn't have an exemption, even if it is only certain times.

Edit to Add: For cyclists, the safest and most logical procedure would be to dismount and walk across as a pedestrian, at least until such time as road users are aware of the flows at the intersections. I emphasis, I'm a fit and avid cyclist, so this isn't pandering to Mary Poppins and ting-a-ling cyclists. It's because I know drivers aren't going to be looking and this is going to be pandemonium initially. As a pedestrian crossing, you're still not safe, but sight-lines and protocol are much more clearly established. Frankly I'd not chance cycling through unless there's no traffic, it's just not worth the risk, even if you have clear right of way. One idiot driver coming too close, suddenly you have to deflect and get caught in the tracks, and....

There's one and one priority only at this time for this project: Give the streetcars priority of motion. Cyclists should dismount and cross, and that way *all* vehicles save for streetcars (and idiot taxi exemptions) must turn allowing streetcars clear right of way since turning cars won't be blocked by cyclists flying through on the inside curb.

One further thought on cyclists allowed through running at intersections: If it is allowed, it should be by a signal phase with pedestrians, both cyclists and pedestrians are at risk at the same time from turning vehicles, so it makes sense to protect both with the same signal phase which would not interfere with streetcar clearance if timed to allow the turning vehicles to clear the intersection first.

 

[44 North]

The thing I'm looking forward to most about the improvement was the idea of putting murals onto the street surface. Is that even happening anymore, or does that come in Spring?

 

[DSC]

The thing I'm looking forward to most about the improvement was the idea of putting murals onto the street surface. Is that even happening anymore, or does that come in Spring?

There will be art work on all the jersey barriers but, I think, not until spring. The various BIAs and neighbourhood assns were invited to select 'their' design from about 10 possible ones. Most were very decent looking - at least on a small screen. I think St Lawrence picked this one:

 

[DSC]

Latest City announcements:

https://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/...89RCRD&nrkey=C0F4C092E5770DB7852581D30065F475

 

[steveintoronto]

The thing I'm looking forward to most about the improvement was the idea of putting murals onto the street surface. Is that even happening anymore, or does that come in Spring?

I'm actually against this idea, for purely pragmatic reason: It is *distracting* to pedestrians, cyclists and motorists. A lot of hazards exist in the pavement, as any cyclist knows, even small ruts are enough to throw you into traffic, and the last thing you need navigating the road is patterns painted on the asphalt to hide what non-cyclists think is just a small imperfection.

If anything, do the opposite: *Reduce clutter* on the pavement. And use it for traffic indicators, like turning arrows, speed alerts and upcoming stops.

Off the road, all sorts of street decoration is wonderful, but not in the forward vision of those needing to see every inch ahead.

 

[44 North]

I'm actually against this idea, for purely pragmatic reason: It is *distracting* to pedestrians, cyclists and motorists. A lot of hazards exist in the pavement, as any cyclist knows, even small ruts are enough to throw you into traffic, and the last thing you need navigating the road is patterns painted on the asphalt to hide what non-cyclists think is just a small imperfection.

If anything, do the opposite: *Reduce clutter* on the pavement. And use it for traffic indicators, like turning arrows, speed alerts and upcoming stops.

Off the road, all sorts of street decoration is wonderful, but not in the forward vision of those needing to see every inch ahead.

I remember you mentioning the slickness of the green paint used on bike lanes, which I agree with and first thought would be the only actual drawback to road murals. But this is a solid point about hiding hazards/variances, especially when our patchy roads and sunken catchbasins are already a hazard when conspicuous. I've wiped out riding over a puddle of vomit, landed on my face when an oldschool speedbump became camouflaged after losing its yellow paint, and when driving am always on alert for foreign object debris. Wouldn't want to mask these. Hm, so maybe the idea of road murals won't become permanent. Well maybe to make King more attractive we can make it brick or something, after the pilot.

 

[TOareaFan]

It is probably buried a few pages back....but if someone could save me digging I would appreciate that.......has there been any estimate on how much time this will save the typical rush hour streetcar?

 

[steveintoronto]

But this is a solid point about hiding hazards/variances, especially when our patchy roads and sunken catchbasins are already a hazard when conspicuous. I've wiped out riding over a puddle of vomit, landed on my face when an oldschool speedbump became camouflaged after losing its yellow paint, and when driving am always on alert for foreign object debris.

And to take that even further, some of the bike lanes are the *worst* examples of bad roadway, not to mention sewer grates misaligned to act as death traps, there's one on Bloor right by the Bloor Station entrance, very hard to see, been that way for over a year, even though I've phoned it in a number of times. And yes, the paint of the murals will be a serious slip hazard. Someone's not thought this through, or consulted the literature for best practice.

As a cyclist, you get it. Most non-cyclists don't. Even slick man-holes and grates, even when properly aligned, are still enough to lose your grip, and then there's the infamous white line markings....

has there been any estimate on how much time this will save the typical rush hour streetcar?

Surprisingly little, about five minutes IIRC, but the benefit is more the *consistency* of headway, and the sense of movement. I suspect later, Council permitting, speed will increase as more incentives are added in.

 

[Edward Skira]

Surprisingly little, about five minutes IIRC, but the benefit is more the *consistency* of headway, and the sense of movement. I suspect later, Council permitting, speed will increase as more incentives are added in.

It took me an hour last week to get from Sherbourne to Bathurst at 5PM. Surely this will no longer happen.