Is the younger generation in Toronto more likely to use transit and will this trend last?

[mdrejhon]

Freedom is smartphones these days.

Give a kid the choice of an iPhone (with a pimped-out phone plan) or driving lessons for their 16th, and you can guess...

 

[ehlow]

For perspective though, in the 905 area and huge parts of the suburban 416 it is much more convenient to do everything by car than transit. Those areas are a huge portion of the population of the GTA.

These trends I'd assume are most pronounced downtown and the surrounding areas with transit.

 

[nfitz]

Here in Toronto, if one already owns a car and uses it for more than one person, there's not much incentive to taking transit. If I take my kids from Cabbagetown to the ROM, for instance, it's $12 for my wife and I on TTC, while the kids are free, or it's about the same to park the car.

Good grief, I'm far too lazy to get the car out, when it barely takes any more time on the streetcar - if any by the time one finds a parking spot. And I'd imagine I'd be putting on weight, if I drove everywhere ... actually I was - part of the reason I originally started taking transit working up in Don Mills - though now I'm working downtown, it's a no brainer - no time is saved at all driving, a lot of money is saved parking, and we became a 1-car family instead of 2.

I just wish my experiences on the TTC were better, or more accurately my kids' experience. Every time I think of acting like a good urbanite and take my 12 year old daughter on the streetcar, it seems there's an insane or nearly homeless guy muttering to himself, or the whole car smells of piss and is littered with rubbish. I tell my daughter when she's 14 she can take the streetcar herself to school, and her reply strongly in the negative.

Oh come on, I take the 506 multiple times a day, and my daughter takes it with one of her parents a few times a week - yes, you see the occasional drunk or crazy, and less seldom someone smelling like that - but it's the exception, particularly in the daytime; I honestly only remember twice dealing with it with my kids ... the once the drunk was happily chatting away with my 2-year old son (it was all kind of cute really, but I certainly had my guard up - and the other time, I simply told my daughter that someone had drunk too much, and that's why he was singing - quickly forgotten). It's sad to to see you've passed your biased prejudices along to your child - which you probably did with how you dealt (or by the sounds of it, failed to deal) with the situation.

 

[ssiguy2]

It also seems like getting a driver's license is less of a "rite of passage" like it used to be. Before it seems like everyone was itching to drive after their 16th birthday.

Ya, I remember when I turned 16 in 1981...............I got my beginners on my birthday and my full driver's licence the day after and back then there were no restrictions,,,,,,,,,,,,when you got it that was it.

I think there are a number of things at play. Kids are not into the suburban lifestyle of their parents, they don't have any kids and if they do they will have them much later in life, and young people today simply don't make the wages the younger people did before even though the cost of living has skyrocketed. When I graduated a BA was a ticket for a decent paying job for life while today it qualifies you to say "do you want fries with that"?

 

[doady]

The nature of car use will change too. With automation. That said, transit use is only starting to approach European levels of service. We're not yet close to the reliability you see in other major cities around the world. You'll see changes, not just with young people, but with residents all over this city on transit use. The determinant isn't age. It's access to great transit service. Look at the difference in transit use between Scarborough and Pickering or Markham next door. Or Etobicoke and Mississauga or Brampton.

Markham's problem is the result of lack of fare integration and a very long boundary.

Lower income in Etobicoke and Scarborough and those residents not having to pay double fare to use TTC subway can't be ignored either.

Plus, Scarborough is denser, more urban than Markham. And places further away from downtown will probably have less transit ridership anyways.

Brampton has limited connections to TTC, but Mississauga's transit ridership and service levels near the Toronto border aren't actually very different from Etobicoke:

Mode of transportation of work, public transit, 2011
Etobicoke North 27.6%
Etobicoke Centre 24.4%
Mississauga East-Cooksville 19.9%
Mississauga Centre 17.0%
Mississauga-Malton 16.5%

Notice how people of Etobicoke North are more like to use transit than people of Etobicoke Centre. Do you think Etobicoke North has better transit service than Etobicoke Centre?

Service levels follow ridership, not the other way around. TTC, Mississauga Transit, Brampton put extra buses to deal with overcrowding. They can't afford to ignore overcrowding and have buses running empty and hope the riders come. YRT tried that with VIVA but eventually they had to cancel routes because no one using them.

I think transit ridership trends are very long term. More and more young people using transit now. Old habits die hard, so likely those young people will continue to use transit when they get older, and their children will too because they were influenced by their parents. It's a change in culture.

 

[James]

My thoughts on this:

• Connectivity via social media and the Internet means you don't always need to be physically in the same place to be socializing.
• The newer generation emphasizes the value in services and experiences versus materials and ownership of things. Vehicles are expensive and new services like Uber satisfy the functionality of the automobile without the ownership costs.
• Migration of population to city centers and the notion of "living where you want to live" as opposed to "living close to work" enable many to eliminate commuting day in, day out for their work...which leads to the next bullet point.
• Telecommuting. Increasing number of people able to work remotely from the office due to better technology and the interconnectivity of offices.
• The newer generation is likely less apt to work for a company whose offices are deep in the suburbs.
• With densification of the urban core, existing infrastructure is simply not reasonable to accommodate an equal rate of growth in automobiles on the road.
• In the past, freedom was in acquiring an automobile and driving around wherever your heart desired. In this day and age, the younger generation is saving less but spending more on experiences (as mentioned earlier). This means flying to destinations around the world on low-cost airlines to meet friends they know through social media who live halfway around the world.

To close, yes, I see more transit use but the reasons for this are a little more intricate, as noted above. Just some thoughts off the top of my head.

 

[gweed123]

Mode of transportation of work, public transit, 2011
Etobicoke North 27.6%
Etobicoke Centre 24.4%
Mississauga East-Cooksville 19.9%
Mississauga Centre 17.0%
Mississauga-Malton 16.5%

Notice how people of Etobicoke North are more like to use transit than people of Etobicoke Centre. Do you think Etobicoke North has better transit service than Etobicoke Centre?

The differetiator there is income. Etobicoke North has several large low-income housing areas, whereas Etobicoke Centre is much more upper middle class. What you're seeing there is a larger % of captive riders in Etobicoke North. You'd see the same type of thing in Flemingdon Park vs Don Mills.

 

[P23]

I suppose I would be part of the 'millennial' generation and very few people I know have cars or even any desire to own one. Part of it is lifestyle, but I imagine a lot of it has to do with low wages, unemployment, rising food prices, high rents and student loans. None of us own homes or have children either, even though we are well past the age our parents were when they had those things.

 

[ehlow]

I suppose I would be part of the 'millennial' generation and very few people I know have cars or even any desire to own one. Part of it is lifestyle, but I imagine a lot of it has to do with low wages, unemployment, rising food prices, high rents and student loans. None of us own homes or have children either, even though we are well past the age our parents were when they had those things.

I'm pretty sure the part of the 'millennial' generation that have high salaries also have lower rates of car use & ownership in urban areas.

Ex. many of those living in the new many condos downtown (or young people living in more expensive cities San Francisco or Manhattan).

Just saying I think it's more of an urban/convenience thing than an affordability thing. After all, the TTC released ridership stats that much of the ridership has pretty high salaries.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Don't forget that the twelve and under crowd can ride and use the TTC free of charge. They'll get used to using the TTC at any time, and without paying a penny (they still around?), nickel, quarter, loonie, or toonie.

They'll be able to ride all around the city and get everywhere, without having to wait for their parents or guardians to chauffeur them.

It's if they will continue after age 12. Also, if their parents chauffeur or helicopter them for any of their kids' activities.

 

[Johnny Au]

Hook them when they are young and they will be lifelong users.

 

[mdrejhon]

My thoughts on this:

• Connectivity via social media and the Internet means you don't always need to be physically in the same place to be socializing.
• The newer generation emphasizes the value in services and experiences versus materials and ownership of things. Vehicles are expensive and new services like Uber satisfy the functionality of the automobile without the ownership costs.
• Migration of population to city centers and the notion of "living where you want to live" as opposed to "living close to work" enable many to eliminate commuting day in, day out for their work...which leads to the next bullet point.
• Telecommuting. Increasing number of people able to work remotely from the office due to better technology and the interconnectivity of offices.
• The newer generation is likely less apt to work for a company whose offices are deep in the suburbs.
• With densification of the urban core, existing infrastructure is simply not reasonable to accommodate an equal rate of growth in automobiles on the road.
• In the past, freedom was in acquiring an automobile and driving around wherever your heart desired. In this day and age, the younger generation is saving less but spending more on experiences (as mentioned earlier). This means flying to destinations around the world on low-cost airlines to meet friends they know through social media who live halfway around the world.

To close, yes, I see more transit use but the reasons for this are a little more intricate, as noted above. Just some thoughts off the top of my head.

Connectivity, yes.
The sweet 16 gift of freedom these days is a fondleslab from Apple or Samsung, rather than from Ford or Toyota.

...though I do hear Apple wants to compete with Ford and Toyota someday.

 

[wild goose chase]

Hook them when they are young and they will be lifelong users.

LOL! The metaphor also works with users who are dependent on it, but dislike it, and adamantly claim that they'd stop using it anytime but nonetheless keep using it.

 

[doady]

Connectivity, yes.
The sweet 16 gift of freedom these days is a fondleslab from Apple or Samsung, rather than from Ford or Toyota.

...though I do hear Apple wants to compete with Ford and Toyota someday.

That's actually a good point. Young people like to use smartphone and maybe that is easier while using transit than while driving...

Smartphone also makes it easier to stay connected, like to find out when the bus comes...

 

[wild goose chase]

Smartphone also makes it easier to stay connected, like to find out when the bus comes...

The bus tracking thing definitely makes transit more convenient than in the old days when you could stand in the freezing cold waiting for a bus to arrive ten minutes late, not knowing whether you should give up and walk elsewhere.