Is the TTC beyond repair?

[Hipster Duck]

I've been thinking about how the TTC has been so poor for so long that it is now itself bankrupt of ideas and competence; that even if the higher governments were to miraculously throw cash at the commission, the results would still be a grossly mismanaged operation that is completely out of touch with the realities of transporting people in a city of 2.5 million. This would be analogous to a country being so war-torn and starved that no generation remembers a time when the country wasn't in chaos. A return to civilization under these circumstances would be nearly impossible. Similarly, you would have to go back over 12 years, possibly more, to a time when the TTC was not a victim of cutbacks, inflated ticket prices and diminishing service. Not only do we have to make up for lost time, but the people who run the TTC have probably forgotten how to run a proper (that is, not on the brink of death) transit system during that time, because they have adapted to a siege mentality for so long. There are many reminders of how the TTC fails, or stubbornly opposes initiatives that are tried and true in other cities of the world. The prevailing attitude at the TTC is either to do nothing or, perversely, make things worse than before they started.

In the interest of serving the people of Toronto, would it be worth disbanding the TTC and completely overhauling the way the system works? I would like to propose any number of ideas, from the province initiating a hostile takeover, to the outright privatization and reallocation of former TTC services to interested companies. One thing is clear: the current TTC is completely rudderless and incompetent and the status quo is just not good enough for a burgeoning city.

 

[Hydrogen]

While I think there are problems with the TTC, it is hardly the worst major transit system in North America. Like so many public assets, it has been on a starvation diet for far too long, and many of its employees have developed a fortress mentality. The odd thing is this; transit users and TTC employees are essentially on the same side when considering the attacks on the system. But it's so hard to tell these days.

What is really sad is that many people in the right places speak of their commitment to transit, recognize its place in reducing gridlock and pollution, but stop with those words. Transit investment sounds expensive, so there is always a shyness to talk about investing in it. When people hear about a billion dollar investment, the only thing that sticks all too often are the words "billion dollars." Transit investments pay off for decades, though; and that fact is all too often forgotten.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

There are many reminders of how the TTC fails, or stubbornly opposes initiatives that are tried and true in other cities of the world.

Not just around the world, there's things the TTC does well in places that it fails to replicate elsewhere. The 190 Rocket is a resounding success but I'm not aware of any plans to copy this model on other major routes. The TTC seems to oppose anything that would lower travel times.

 

[salvius]

While the TTC has its fair share of problems, it's by far from the worst, and indeed, it's still one of the continent's most functioning, and certainly efficient systems. The province is not interested in the TTC because it is not interested in funding it; it makes NO sense for the province to manage a local service. Privatizing the system won't be happening (and a good thing too), because of problems too numerous to list.

 

[Blovertis]

I'm getting a bit tired of hearing the TTC being lauded as efficient. Yes, no doubt it is "efficient" in the same way that the metabolism of man marooned on a desert island is "efficient";his system has adapted so that it can make do on a drop of water here and a scrap of food there. But that doesn't change the fact that he is near death.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

Well there was talk of the province taking over the TTC awhile back, though i don't think it was anything beyond ponderance... However, I think it would be best if the GTTA took over all the GTA transit systems and amalgamated them into one. When our cities are so fluid already, we shouldn't have such a mishmash of transit systems... Vancouver did the right thing, and hell, even Edmonton, with a similar situation with three operating transit companies, deals with interregional transit better than Toronto.

 

[ShonTron]

TTC near death? Hardly.

The Chicago Transit Authority has always been in dire straits. Only New York provides better service than the TTC in Canada or the US.

There's certainly a lot of issues - underfunding, expansions driven by politics rather than need, high fares, and often poor management. But that would describe most transit agencies in NA, except the TTC still has an enviable reputation for safety, service standards (in most cities, a place like Brampton would be impressive for cities 2-3 times its size) and efficiency.

 

[ganjavih]

I always miss the TTC when using transit in other NA cities (other than NYC). And I always find it a joy to use the TTC on my visits to Toronto, especially after having to endure the joke of a system that is the STM. The TTC has its problems and challenges but terms such as "near death" and "beyond repair" are massive overstatements.

 

[junctionist]

And it's further from death than the New York's subway in its darkest days. We've heard about the graffiti in the 1980s, but the situation went beyond that, as this site describes.

"There was no preventative maintenance - components were fixed as they failed - which was often...By early 1981, one quarter of the trains were out of service, and thirty minute commutes ballooned to one and a half hours...Structural defects that required immediate attention were labeled as Code Red defects or "Red Tag" areas. "Immediate attention" was defined as "within 24 hours". However, there were so many structural problems throughout the entire subway system that many went unrepaired for months!"

And yet with all their problems with dangerous infrastructure, fares, funding, crime, and travel times, they survived.

 

[Hipster Duck]

The TTC is not near death but it is getting worse every year.

We cannot compare the TTC to an average North American transit system. In almost every community in NA the layout of the city was meant for easy motoring, with all but the poorest people having easy access to a car. In Toronto this is not the case; affluent people choose not to have a car but more so because of the costs and inconvenience of owning a car in the old urban parts of Toronto, and not the convenience of our public transit system.

You also can't make a fair comparison the TTC to New York's of the 1970s, either. Back then the entire city of New York was suffering from a decline, having lost a million people to the suburbs and suffering from a horrendous crime rate. In any case, the story of the MTA has a happy ending with the subway running more smoothly than ever and improvements on the way. This cannot be said for the TTC. In fact it is even more galling that you can watch Toronto become bigger and more dynamic while, paradoxically, its transit system gets worse and worse. If our city was in relative decline, it would be more acceptable to see the kind of service cuts and fare hikes that we are witnessing, but the opposite is happening and soon overcrowding and unacceptable service levels will reach a boiling point, stifling further growth in the city.

We should not be complacent about the TTC. Saying that the system is "fine" basically gives tacit support for the city to continue sacking the service and for higher governments to continue ignoring the problem.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Will the TTC ever sink to this level?

JNist: Good read on that NYC Subway link. I remember alot of this because I saw much of it first hand. The writer describes the changes made to improve the NYC Transit system in the 1980s but I would like to see something written about the 1970s when cities in the US were being abandoned for the suburbs - the term was "white flight" and infrastructure as an example suffered due to plain neglect as an example. NYC - and its transit system - suffered seriously in the 70s - in everything from the subway graffiti and outright vandalism epidemic which began in earnest in 1972; The general attitude of many people was negative towards the city in the mid 70s-a prime example was NYCs fiscal crisis and that infamous NYDN headline-(US President) "Ford To City-Drop Dead". NYC was hitting rock bottom in the later 70s-prime examples include the paranoia over the Son of Sam murder spree and the riots that broke out after the blackout in the Summer of 1977. To me the epitome of how bad things had gotten was the literal abandoned ruins of entire neighborhoods in areas such as the South Bronx.

The 80s started out as bad as the 70s had gotten to be-but the powers-that-be in NYC knew that if things did not change that the city could be in literal danger itself-in everything from the crime problem to neglected infrastructure. NYC Transit began gradually getting things together and really benefitted when David Gunn was brought in to head NYC Transit. He declared literal war on graffiti and other vandalism as examples and his goal was to get the house in decent running order-which was accomplished by the end of the decade into the 90s.

I remember visiting Toronto and just enjoying using the TTC from my Summer 1979 first time trip to my 1990 last long visit. The TTC had a reputation for running a well-maintained and clean system. One thing I recall is how well-kept the 1953 Gloucester Red cars were-I remember one day on that 1990 trip waiting at Wilson station-a train of Red cars came out of the yard and I recall two young women seated nearby were dissapointed and they talked to each other about how much they disliked those Reds-I felt like saying to them something about how well-kept they were and that cars that were newer in NYC were nowheres near as well maintained-but I didn't. I noticed that changes may have been coming on the TTC-I recall riding in a subway car that had hard seats on the Yonge line-I wondered if it was a test.
In the 90s to today did the TTC have any sort of problem with graffiti and were hard seats installed on any more subway cars? As some mentioned that the TTC has steadily raised its fare on a regular basis. On my first 1979 trip the fare was 60 cents cash or two tokens for one dollar. Can and does the TTC have support to allow the fare to remain constant today or do they have to increase fares with inflation to stay afloat-and how much do the Province and Canadian Federal Government must contribute to keep things stable-or is that strictly a City of Toronto problem?

I hope that the TTC NEVER alllows itself to get anywhere near as bad as NYC Transit had gotten-I feel that Toronto would never let it happen.

ST: Let me clarify something about Chicago's CTA-I heartily disagree on that comment about the CTA "always being in dire straits" - The CTA has for the most part held its own-the exception being the RTA fiscal crunch in the early 80s and the current fiscal crisis-resulting in a major fare increase effective September 16th I believe-a peak hour rail ride will be $3-and the current condition of the system-it is hard to believe that the CTA is in trouble now worse in my opinion than ever before-problems like track slow orders limiting train speeds as an example. My uncle worked for CTA as a motorman from 1958-1986 and I saw first hand some of the good and bad of the CTA.

The CTA-and the Chicagoland area-and for that matter Illinois-suffers to an extent from a divisive "Us VS. Them" mentality-The 6-county area that Chicago is in contains two thirds of Illinois' total population-with Cook County alone-which Chicago is the county seat-40 percent right there of the State.

Many outside Chicago see the city in a negative sense and sometimes the City suffers because of it-also the City-Suburb rift is very problematic also. Add to that the political aspect-a Democratic majority city with many Republican majority suburbs and that only adds to the divisiveness.
For CTA info and history-a great site is from Graham Garfield of the CTA is:
WWW.CHICAGO-L.ORG/ Comments and observations from LI MIKE

 

[lordmandeep]

ttc is not too bad.


its frequency at rush hour on the subway is comparable to much bigger transit systems around the world.


However it must provide such frequency or the Yonge line would get massively overcrowded.

 

[Blovertis]

No wonder the TTC is in dire straits; when even transit geeks are content to use such low standards of comparison (i.e., New York at its lowest point in history and other North American cities, most of which are notorious for their lack of transit culture), then why expect the citizenry at large to demand more?

 

[allabootmatt]

Excellent point; as much as the TTC is quite good, even today, by US/Canadian standards when the frame of the comparison is shifted to Europe things start to look very different indeed.

But hey, it's way cheaper than the tube in London and a lot more reliable.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

i just find it amazing that we continue to have so much trouble with the TTC yet another integral part of our transport system, Pearson, is able to expand using billions and billions of non taxpayer dollars to expand. Yes, I know the two are VERY VERY different, but the airport kinda uses its "if we're not here, you're screwed" attitude to be able to push through its high landing and user fees. There's no reason why the TTC can't take that same stance, albeit antagonistic, but it might get the job done. Without the TTC, there would be no Toronto.