Ipso-Reid: Grits, Tories tie in Ontario poll

[afransen TO]

Winf actually has huge potential in Canada, particularly Ontario. Ontario has better climatic conditions for wind than Germany, and go look up how much wind power Germany has.

We just haven't even begun to tap our wind resources.

 

[Brighter Hell]

Individual wind farms may not compare to a nuclear or coal plant but they're a lot easier to build. dozens of them are springing up across the country. In Ontario alone over 1200 MW of wind power is in the works, and that's just the ones that are under construction or have contracts awarded - it doesn't include the projects that are testing wind patterns, negotiating for land, and going through approvals. It's not some fringe hippie feel-good thing, wind is becoming a major player.

 

[Abeja de Almirante]

In Ontario alone over 1200 MW of wind power is in the works,

But how much of that is near the GTA? If distance doesn't matter, then we can consider another alternative project, that of tidal power in James Bay.

Wind power may well have great potential, though it's got a long way to go. In 2003, the total global wind power output was 40,000 MW www.ewea.org/fileadmin/ew...ummary.pdf .

I admit, it's less of a hippie project, and if it can help break the West's dependence (less so for resource-rich Canada) on fossil fuels from despotic regimes in the Middle East, Africa and Latin America I say go for it 100%.

 

[afransen TO]

"The amount of solar energy that hits the planet every hour easily exceeds total daily electricity consumption."

Every hour, the equivalent of a year of human electricity consumption in solar radiation hits the earth. It's a lot, to say the least.

The main downfall of solar (photovoltaics) is that it is terribly inefficient (15% or so), expensive, and requires large surface areas. Wind more or less leaves the ground beneath it for other uses, such as agriculture, or just wilderness (land or sea).

Tidal isn't a very effective form of electricity generation for Ontario; wind is much, much better.

 

[ganjavih]

Every hour, the equivalent of a year of human electricity consumption in solar radiation hits the earth. It's a lot, to say the least.

But solar power is associated with hippies so even when the technology becomes viable, it still won't be as cool or manly as coal or nuclear.

 

[Archivistower]

I actually really agree with Abeja. Wind power is an option and can be encouraged, but at this point it's still quite a bit more expensive than many other options. If you are willing to pay a considerable premium for wind power, so be it, but there are a lot of issues with it.

Even with wind power, you need other sources anyways as a backup, since the production of wind power is variable and you can't really store it. I doubt it would be acceptable to be waiting in a dark elevator on the 32nd floor until the wind picks up again.

 

[Ed007Toronto]

Wind power can be stored if you combine it with hydroelectric power. Do what they do at the power plant in Niagara Falls. Electricity generated by the wind-power pumps water up into a reservoir. You then empty the reservoir generating power when it is needed. Not perfect but it would work.

 

[Brighter Hell]

wind power costs have fallen dramatically and will continue to fall - it costs something like a fifth of what it did in the late 90s. it says a lot that wind projects are being built by private, for profit companies while nuclear, hydro, etc. rely on massive government investment.

 

[bizorky]

But solar power is associated with hippies so even when the technology becomes viable, it still won't be as cool or manly as coal or nuclear.

Manly in terms of grimy hard-bodied guys shovelling coal. I doubt anyone wants to shovel uranium, though.

 

[afransen TO]

"you can't really store it"

You can, actually. You could even store it in big batteries for use on demand.

 

[AlexisTO]

A $40 billion investment in nuclear power is more about employment than it is about power generation. OPG employees 1000's of people trained to work with the systems in place. What happens to pipe fitters, nuclear sceinitists and all of those chemical an mechanical engineers if the province abandonded nuclear? Not to mention all of those construction jobs. Many of the older employees, of which there are many, would be out of work, or at least need retraining.

A recent report mentioned that a private firm wants to build 140 windmills, enough power for 200,000 homes, off shore near Belleville at the cost of $1 billion. based on these costs, $40 billion would help to provide enough power for 8,000,000 homes. Add to this conservation, small localized generation and I see no reason for nuclear. They should also be encouraging industry into adopting self contained alternative generation systems. Why couldn't a Honda plant generate it's own power via, wind, solar and hydro were possible? We're being duped by a government not willing to change for political reasons. Gee, thats never happened before.

 

[adma]

Manly in terms of grimy hard-bodied guys shovelling coal. I doubt anyone wants to shovel uranium, though.

Unless you're the Viz character Terry ****wit, that is

 

[unimaginative2]

A recent report mentioned that a private firm wants to build 140 windmills, enough power for 200,000 homes, off shore near Belleville at the cost of $1 billion. based on these costs, $40 billion would help to provide enough power for 8,000,000 homes.

The problem is the law of diminishing returns. The projects proposed now are in the very best locations. As you start to build more (especially up to massive amounts like $40 billion), you start to pay more and more for additional capacity. Moreover, a grid too reliant on wind can be very unreliable.

 

[Antiloop33rpm]

The question I have, which I cannot say I have found much of an answer for, is how much does exporting of energy factor into the entire equation? Ive seen numbers that say as much as 25 percent of all the electricity produced in Canada is exported. If exporting is being factored in too part of the business plan, I can understand why OPG would want to invest in nuclear for its stability and predictability.

 

[Brighter Hell]

The problem is the law of diminishing returns. The projects proposed now are in the very best locations. As you start to build more (especially up to massive amounts like $40 billion), you start to pay more and more for additional capacity. Moreover, a grid too reliant on wind can be very unreliable.

How do you know there aren't hundreds of untapped locations that are just as good? And how much wind power is too much? Is Denmark's power system unreliable?