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Ideas for funding the TTC?

I think that non-Torontoians should pay a higher fare since the city subsidies the 30% that the fare does not cover. Why should someone coming in from Vaughan and use a Steeles bus and subway that is 30% paid by the property taxes in city of Toronto.

If I remember right, that's 17% from taxpayers on commercial property, and 13% from taxpayers on residential property. So I think you mean 13%, not 30%.

Of course, since you are focussed on who pays taxes to subsidize the TTC, what you really mean is surely not that non-Torontonians should pay a higher fare -- but that non-owners of Toronto residential property should pay a higher fare.

As to how you enforce it, it's not too hard. Since you want to tie transit-subsidizing tax with lower TTC ridership, you simply jack up fares across the board, and then give a special discount to your cherished property tax payers (who, of course, may live in Woodbridge, Florida, wherever). I would suggest adding a mandatory bundled transferable Metropass into residential property taxes. Thinking about the ramifications is complicated, but I think it would work if you're going to go the my tax money! my system! you freeloader! stay on your side of the border and spend no money here! route.

Obviously disclaimer: I think this whole idea is silly. There are lots of reasons why it's silly. They include the fact that most of the money comes from the farebox, that residential property taxpayers should be happy to subsidize public transit as it increases the value of their property (in some cases very substantially), that commercial property taxpayers derive a very significant benefit from a transit system that allows them to shuttle employees in and out at no other cost to them, that the GO transit system for which Toronto pays nothing is set up to feed the TTC and increase its fares and certainly should be included in the silly who-pays-for-what calculus as long as one is calculating, that all TTC ridership has an economic multiplier effect for Toronto's economy but none greater than the ridership of people who do not use libraries, schools, or virtually any other social services except to travel in and buy lunch and shop and otherwise spend money in Toronto, that the subsidy is to the loss-making parts of the TTC and people getting dropped off at subways and paying fares to fill them are not loss-making (running empty buses is) so the TTC actually benefits financially from them, and on and on.

But, if you're going to float a silly idea, you might as well do it with a bit more accuracy. The 30% isn't all, or even half (if I remember right), residential property tax. Residential property tax correlates imperfectly with place of residence. And so forth.

EDIT: What I do not think is a silly idea, is as-the-crow-flies distance-based fares. They are relatively cost-based, they align incentives with good policy on the part of both the transit system (to align cost with distance) and its users (to bear the costs of not staying local), and they are much simpler than zones.
 
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I think that non-Torontoians should pay a higher fare since the city subsidies the 30% that the fare does not cover. Why should someone coming in from Vaughan and use a Steeles bus and subway that is 30% paid by the property taxes in city of Toronto.

Bad, bad idea. That would just encourage 905ers to drive instead of taking the TTC (creating road congestion), or to avoid Toronto altogether (hurting Toronto businesses and pushing Toronto employers into the 905).

We should be taking down artificial barriers between the 416 and 905, not adding new ones.
 
I think that non-Torontoians should pay a higher fare since the city subsidies the 30% that the fare does not cover. Why should someone coming in from Vaughan and use a Steeles bus and subway that is 30% paid by the property taxes in city of Toronto.

Perhaps the 905 systems can reciprocate and impose higher fares on Torontonians using their own systems. And cancel all the routes designed to serve Torontonians.

Perhaps the TTC should impose a higher fare on cripples too, because they take up more space and slow down the bus, and therefore increase operating costs of the TTC.

Toronto is the only system that does not allow free transfer with neighbouring systems, and yet that is not good enough for you? Note that TTC bus riders don't have pay extra fare to transfer to the subway, but 905 bus riders do.

Why not just ban 905ers from taking the TTC? Or ban 905ers from entering the city altogether and wrecking your roads? Just build a wall around your city and no more fat 905ers will ruin your urban UTopia.
 
Why not just ban 905ers from taking the TTC? Or ban 905ers from entering the city altogether and wrecking your roads? Just build a wall around your city and no more fat 905ers will ruin your urban UTopia.

Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?
 
It always happen when you put public money into something - it causes rifts - sort of a national version of sibling rivalry - which is why Canada will never solve the Quebec issue.
 
I think that non-Torontoians should pay a higher fare since the city subsidies the 30% that the fare does not cover. Why should someone coming in from Vaughan and use a Steeles bus and subway that is 30% paid by the property taxes in city of Toronto.

Another anti-905 post from a Torontonian.

Proof that 416 can't contend against 905 seems to be true. If this happens, Sauga, Peel, York & Durham (and oh yes, Hamilton) will rise while T-Dot crumble into the ashes.
 
I think that non-Torontoians should pay a higher fare since the city subsidies the 30% that the fare does not cover. Why should someone coming in from Vaughan and use a Steeles bus and subway that is 30% paid by the property taxes in city of Toronto.

With the possibly of Metrolinx taking over the TTC it wouldn't matter where you lived in the GTA.:rolleyes:
 
If Metrolinx took over the local transit agencies they would likely levy a 12% property tax across the GTA to replace the amount removed from local taxes.

This is why I support a take-over. More even burden. More even funding. And more even services across the GTA.
 
This is why I support a take-over. More even burden. More even funding. And more even services across the GTA.

Woo for 60 minute service on all routes :)

Last time service was equalized between two areas, the busy routes lost service. I'm a little nervous to see that happen again.
 
This is why I support a take-over. More even burden. More even funding. And more even services across the GTA.

Considering the 905 cities spend far less per capita on public transit than Toronto does, any "even-ing" out of service would have to come from massive tax increases in the 905 areas. Either that or funneling money away from services in the 416 core area to pay for even service. :rolleyes:
 
This is why I support a take-over. More even burden. More even funding. And more even services across the GTA.

Screw that unless it means matching Toronto's level of funding per capita.
 

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