Hurontario St (Hwy 10) and QEW Interchange

[ShonTron]

This is getting into pretty petty semantics, but Highway 10 is still a very common name in Peel Region - particuarly as it changes names several times, even though Hurontario is actually the original name for the road as far as Orangeville and Highway 24 in Collingwood, even pre-dating the township names and concessions (the concessions based on Hurontario Street in the former Toronto, Chinguacousy and Caledon Townships). This is particularly true north of the 401 - "10 and Steeles" in Brampton is the most common discriptor, as the road changes names from Main to Hurontario, reflecting the old Town of Brampton boundaries (and again, at Highway 7, pardon me Coruscanti, Bovarid Drive or Regional Road 107). In Caledon, it's Highway 10.

The downloading of provincial highways, but particuarly the removal of shields, was a terrible mistake as highway numbers at least provided continuity, something that the regions and counties never bothered to do. In many places, while the "highway" may be maintained by a municipality, the numbering remains intact. A little tab under the shields (ie "Maintained by the City of Mississauga") would have solved any liability issue.

 

[adma]

The downloading of provincial highways, but particuarly the removal of shields, was a terrible mistake as highway numbers at least provided continuity, something that the regions and counties never bothered to do. In many places, while the "highway" may be maintained by a municipality, the numbering remains intact. A little tab under the shields (ie "Maintained by the City of Mississauga") would have solved any liability issue.

And, continuity or no continuity it says something about how county/regional road numbers (i.e. the "flowerpots"), as opposed to highway numbers (i.e. the King's Highway shields), haven't ever "instilled" themselves in mythology, i.e. Hurontario will always do double duty as Hwy 10, Dundas as Hwy 5, Lakeshore as Hwy 2, yet who knows what Airport Road is?

All in all, there probably is a generational factor here, i.e. to those who came of age after about 1970, highways = 400-series, and the rest are happy-motoring-era anachronisms. Like, why would an all-too-often two-laner something like Lakeshore be more privileged as a "highway" these days than, say, Erin Mills Parkway?

 

[bleeepbluuup]

I think the main reason people still say "Highway 10" or just "Ten" in Mississauga is because "ten" has one syllable and "Hurontario" has 5. Nothing to do with the actual road and its highway-ness. Ten just rolls off the tongue better. I still call it Hwy 10.

 

[nfitz]

I'm not sure that 10 is really lasting. I deal with a lot of people in Mississauga ... and I'd say that most of them haven't been around the area for more than 5-10 years. It's extremely rare to hear any of them refer to it as Highway 10 except for long-standing residents.

 

[Transportfan]

What do you call a 7 lane road in the middle of a city?? What about cutting it in haft??

At the same time, 70km is the norm with no thought to pedestrians or cycles.

I call it a highway.

By that definition, many suburban arterials in cities are highways. But they are still stop-and-go roads with relatively low speed limits, transit (and in Hurontario's case a planned LRT--how urban is that) and so don't meet the criteria of highways. And it's not common nomenclature to call them highways in in most cities, except in the 905 GTA. What makes calling Hurontario a highway so unusual is that much of it is a higher-density 40+year-old traditional arterial, parts of which have sidewalks to the curb, and which stays a street for a long distance.

 

[nfitz]

But they are still stop-and-go roads with relatively low speed limits ... so don't meet the criteria of highways. And it's not common nomenclature to call them highways in in most cities, except in the 905 GTA. What makes calling Hurontario a highway so unusual is that much of it is a higher-density 40+year-old traditional arterial, parts of which have sidewalks to the curb, and which stays a street for a long distance.

Doesn't meet the criteria of a highway? Every single public road meets the criteria of a highway!

According to the Ontario Highway Traffic Act a highway is defined in Ontario as "“highway” includes a common and public highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge, viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ". So not only is Hurontario Street (and any suburban cul-de-sac) a highway, but so is the sidewalk and grass along the side!

The act also defines "“King’s Highway” includes the secondary highways and tertiary roads designated under the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act;"

To what definition and criteria do you refer?

 

[Jonny5]

The number of people who refer to Dundas Street as Highway 5 grows with the distance east of Mississauga you go and the newer subdivisions start to fade away.

I still remember driving (or actually being driven as I wasn't old enough to drive) up the 403 and seeing the giant green overhead sign simply say "5" (in a crown of course) over the right (of the two) lanes with no other information. Everyone knew it was Dundas street and it wasn't necessary to add that.

My parents talk about when the 403 simply ended at 10.

As for what a "highway" is. Ignoring legal definitions, if you ever get out to the 90% of the province that is not urban, highways are what the farm folk call the mostly two lane roads, maintained by the gov, with a speed limit of 80 where signs tell you a dear can jump out an any moment. I've only seen a turkey myself.

EDIT: I like how the intersections of rural highways are almost always a "XXXXXX's Corners". Find someone over 70 and they will be able to tell you who that was and why they named that spot after them (usually they owned land nearby). I'll always know the intersection of 5 and 6 as Clappison's Corner's. I have no clue who Clappison was, but I wonder what he would think of the spot today.

 

[Transportfan]

The downloading of provincial highways, but particuarly the removal of shields, was a terrible mistake as highway numbers at least provided continuity, something that the regions and counties never bothered to do. In many places, while the "highway" may be maintained by a municipality, the numbering remains intact. A little tab under the shields (ie "Maintained by the City of Mississauga") would have solved any liability issue.

There's no need to keep "10" as a continous number as it terminates at the lake instead of coming out into the country again and continuing as a real highway as Hwy 7 does.

As well, what will make continuing the number even more redundant is the still-provincial 10 coming from Caledon will soon feed into the 410 directly, making Hurontario a separate roadway that will cross over the new 10/410 and become Valleywood Blvd.

 

[Transportfan]

Doesn't meet the criteria of a highway? Every single public road meets the criteria of a highway!

To what definition and criteria do you refer?

Jonny5 basically summed up what I (and almost 100% of the population) do:

As for what a "highway" is. Ignoring legal definitions, if you ever get out to the 90% of the province that is not urban, highways are what the farm folk call the mostly two lane roads, maintained by the gov, with a speed limit of 80where signs tell you a dear can jump out an any moment.

That and the 400-series highways of course. Not much else really except maybe 27 through Etobicoke and former 7 between Centre and Bayview with their wide ROW's and limited entrances.

 

[adma]

There's no need to keep "10" as a continous number as it terminates at the lake instead of coming out into the country again and continuing as a real highway as Hwy 7 does.

Well, there is a need that doesn't seem to get into your thick skull--historical sensitivity. And once again, this feeds back into the downloading dilemma and whatever else. Why must numbered highways always be "real highways", according to your definition?

Like, as far as I'm concerned, who cares if it's seldom referred to as such and doesn't meet your kind of obtuse "highway" criteria--Lakeshore will always be Highway 2.

It's the idea of the "highway" as a guiding-line legacy, not the idea of a "highway" as a certain ahistorical class of road...

 

[doady]

10 i can understand because there's the odd Highway 10 sign still up. But I have never seen a Highway 5 sign in Mississauga.

If you said Highway 5, no one would even know what you're talking about!

You said all the signs say Hurontario Street, but now you acknowledge some say Highway 10.

 

[adma]

Though as nfitz indicates above, it may be a "long-term resident" thing to refer to Hwy 10.

And again, there may be a generational thing to how large the notion of "highways" a la King's Highways loom--particularly if you grew up in/were conditioned by a MapArt/GPS era, when the old-school "red and blue lines on the map" school of mapping came to seem rudimentary and primitive. (A la the "official" Ontario map--who uses that anymore? It's as much a c20 anachronism as Yellow Pages...)

 

[Dan416]

You said all the signs say Hurontario Street, but now you acknowledge some say Highway 10.

I never said NO ONE says Highway 10. Clearly some people on this forum do. But people I've spoken to in real life? No. My dad grew up in Mississauga, and went to school at T.L. Kennedy (which is on Hurontario) and even he never says Highway 10. "Highway 10" is historical, and that's about it. What's so special about that moniker that it must be preserved? I personally DO like the Ontario highway crown/shield things. But the province removed those designations, and unless it wants to maintain those numbers just to have consistency in numbers (not against that either), then we should refer to these roads by their legal names.

And really, as much as you older folk might like to keep those old designations, the younger generation has never SEEN those signs, which are pretty much all gone now anyway, so they wouldn't know what you're talking about to begin with.

In summary, if you wanna bring them back, petition the province (or something). Because at this rate, all those downloaded highways will be gone for good (as in, gone from collective memory) in a generation.

 

[doady]

Honestly, I don't know how anyone can constantly get into hissy fit at the simple use of the name Highway 10. EVERY time "Highway 10" is said, for the past 4 years, Transportfan has been there to complain. Hell, sometimes even when no one says it, he is there to complain.

Yes, I like to call it Highway 10, not out of disrespect or mockery. It just seems fitting somehow. As I said, the term "highway" is not unique to rural areas, and there are not exclusive to freeways either (yes, the 400 series highways are freeways). So this insistance that 'highway' should be only used for freeways and rural roads makes no sense. What exactly do two-lane rural roads and multi-lane divided urban freeways have in common?

From now on, I will go out my way to call it Highway 10 instead of Hurontario Street, especially on this forum. Maybe I will write my councillor and have him get the 19 changed to 10. We should keep the number 10 alive for Hurontario in some official way.

 

[doady]

we should refer to these roads by their legal names.

I say you should stop worrying about what other people do and just worry about you do and quit preaching. I say people should call it what they want to call it, why do you care so much?

There are plennnty of people of still use the name Highway 10, including young people such as myself. It is not going away anytime soon, so you had better get used to it. Transportfan too.