Humber Bay Shores

[Filip]

Mimico is truly an interesting neighbourhood to live in.. It has two faces: the gentrified condo-land at the east with towering condominiums filled with young, upwardly-mobile professionals and the west, which is a working class, traditional neighbourhood with loads of undesirable drunks, petty crime and a general reluctance to accept the roll of gentrification in the area.

I keep saying Mimico-By-The-Lake probably has the best bones of most neighbourhoods undergoing gentrification due to its position hugging Mimico Beach and the numerous waterfront promenades and parks already existing and under construction. The Mimico 20/20 Charette laid out plans for the redevelopment of the crackhouse apartment buildings and the improvement of the current rental stock. That, with redevelopment, retail and new promenades will create a neighbourhood that will become very desirable for the harbingers of gentrification (hipsters and the like)... In fact I'm surprised they haven't come here yet, Mimico is one of those places where Hipsters would truly enjoy themselves. At community meetings, a lot of business owners on the Lakeshore strip complain that the condos in the area don't contribute anything to the neighbourhood and even though over 10,000 new residents were added in the past few years, business continues to go downhill. A few condo dwellers said that while they enjoy the occasional walk into the Mimico BIA territory, the businesses just do not appeal to them. These young professionals do not go to discount nail salons, dollars stores and scuzzy bars/restaurants which haven't received a cleanup/reno in the last 25 years. Once business in the Lakeshore strip reflect the new realities to the east, then the condo dwellers will shop and play there. The Cafe du Lac (mentioned by Toronto Life numerous times) is a great new bistro which opened up 2 years ago and is frequented by those living in the condos. Business is great because they're offering a product and service which these residents with higher disposable income prefer. Nail salons and dollar stores; not so much.

So - as my friends say: dumpy Mimico to the west, rich Mimico to the east... Let's hope that east ends up swallowing the west.

EDIT: Here's what the city's Mimico design charette envisions for the neighbourhood in the following 10 years:
http://www.toronto.ca/planning/pdf/mimico_rev_action_plan_proceedings_rep_sept09.pdf

 

[sodapop]

i live in east mimico (in the condos) and love it. we'll hopefully be moving to a house in west mimico north of lakeshoreby next year, i already spend the majority of my time there and i wish that part of lakeshore could be turned around and new retail could move into those currently quite nasty storefronts and the area could become nicer. those apartments to the south of lakeshore aren't doing the street any favours though.

 

[Filip]

i live in east mimico (in the condos) and love it. we'll hopefully be moving to a house in west mimico north of lakeshoreby next year, i already spend the majority of my time there and i wish that part of lakeshore could be turned around and new retail could move into those currently quite nasty storefronts and the area could become nicer. those apartments to the south of lakeshore aren't doing the street any favours though.

I just came back from a very satisfying walk at the Mimico Linear Park (just south of Superior and Mimico avenues... Just wow! The view towards the condos is mind blowing!

 

[taal]

I'm trying to think where I walked. But there's some path that brings you right down to that bridge on the lake (don't remember the name). A lot of parks. Now on the north end, there are a ton of low-medium rise rental apartments.
Is this is the 'crummy' end ? I took a walk through it and it really seemed to have a high concentration of immigrants and families. It came of as somewhere between the poor and medium end of the income level. Is this what you refer too ? Because it didn't come off too bad at all to me.

I wish I could remember where it was. I was suprised by the number of condos here. I think I evnetually emerged at a surburan type plaza with a metro if that helps. The parks are nice but in somewhat bad shape - lots of graffiti. There was this weird structure in the middle of the park (looked like a saucer or the like) straight out of the 60/70s, looks very interesting but again covered with grafiti. Once you get down to the lake everything changes. It's busy with a lot of yonge people just as you described. No retail whatsoever though anywhere here!

 

[Filip]

I'm trying to think where I walked. But there's some path that brings you right down to that bridge on the lake (don't remember the name). A lot of parks. Now on the north end, there are a ton of low-medium rise rental apartments.
Is this is the 'crummy' end ? I took a walk through it and it really seemed to have a high concentration of immigrants and families. It came of as somewhere between the poor and medium end of the income level. Is this what you refer too ? Because it didn't come off too bad at all to me.

I wish I could remember where it was. I was suprised by the number of condos here. I think I evnetually emerged at a surburan type plaza with a metro if that helps. The parks are nice but in somewhat bad shape - lots of graffiti. There was this weird structure in the middle of the park (looked like a saucer or the like) straight out of the 60/70s, looks very interesting but again covered with grafiti. Once you get down to the lake everything changes. It's busy with a lot of yonge people just as you described. No retail whatsoever though anywhere here!

Ah! I know exactly where you were! You took the Humber river path north, emerged at the Stonegate neighbourhood - which in fact has a similar built form to the string of garbage on Lakeshore in Mimico.

Those long, narrow 3-4 storey apartment buildings are a blight in any neighbourhood.

 

[taal]

Ah! I know exactly where you were! You took the Humber river path north, emerged at the Stonegate neighbourhood - which in fact has a similar built form to the string of garbage on Lakeshore in Mimico.

Those long, narrow 3-4 storey apartment buildings are a blight in any neighbourhood.

Ah yes 'Stonegate', that's it! Thanks.

Yep, the built form isn't ideal at all I'll agree to that, but is the area you're referring to a the more run down part of mimico ? Because I really wouldn't call run down at all. I think you're referring to a different area. Unfortunately I know very little regarding this. I've taken a lot of walks on the lakeshore but that's just about it.

Where are the main retail strips in this area btw ? You're right though there's been little to no retail fitting of the area.


I thought for a little while liberty village would turn out similar but on recent walk there's quite a bit more retail spread out in there then I thought - on the western half (so not where all the new condos areas are exactly). But then again they have King W - which is changing quite rapidly as well.

 

[Filip]

Ah yes 'Stonegate', that's it! Thanks.

Yep, the built form isn't ideal at all I'll agree to that, but is the area you're referring to a the more run down part of mimico ? Because I really wouldn't call run down at all. I think you're referring to a different area. Unfortunately I know very little regarding this. I've taken a lot of walks on the lakeshore but that's just about it.

Where are the main retail strips in this area btw ? You're right though there's been little to no retail fitting of the area.


I thought for a little while liberty village would turn out similar but on recent walk there's quite a bit more retail spread out in there then I thought - on the western half (so not where all the new condos areas are exactly). But then again they have King W - which is changing quite rapidly as well.

Apparently the new condo developments coming online in the following few years (especially Westlake) will be retail-heavy. Westlake is to have 100,000 sqf of retail, which is significant. Apparently they already have Shoppers, LCBO and Metro signed on.. My mother was quite excited to hear about that as we live a 5 min walk from this development.

The run down part of Mimico is the shopping strip itself (between Louisa and Hillside, on Lakeshore), part of the problem are the bedbug palace walkups squeezed together on the south side of Lakeshore. There are very few nights that a police cruiser is not in front of one of those buildings!

 

[taal]

I think some of the current developments, beyond the sea and the like have a little retails as well ? Just a little, not 100K - which is great to see.


Using google walk and a little bit of memory I remember this strip now! There's really not that much retail there either is there. It doesn't come as run down though (not at all), but it definitely looks like it caters to a low income class.

But correct me if I'm wrong, most of the condos that have went up in the last 10 years or so have been east of this point closer to the city ? Some of the new projects are now further on the west side around this strip ?

 

[Filip]

I think some of the current developments, beyond the sea and the like have a little retails as well ? Just a little, not 100K - which is great to see.


Using google walk and a little bit of memory I remember this strip now! There's really not that much retail there either is there. It doesn't come as run down though (not at all), but it definitely looks like it caters to a low income class.

But correct me if I'm wrong, most of the condos that have went up in the last 10 years or so have been east of this point closer to the city ? Some of the new projects are now further on the west side around this strip ?

Not as much run down as simply trashy.. Some of the places (Celebrity Cuts for example) are an obvious front for drug operations and there was a shooting there two years ago!

The condos that went up on the motel strip are only a 15 min walk from Mimico... If that strip offered more, I'm sure the condo dwellers would rather walk than take transit or drive for cafes and shopping.

 

[adma]

Ah! I know exactly where you were! You took the Humber river path north, emerged at the Stonegate neighbourhood - which in fact has a similar built form to the string of garbage on Lakeshore in Mimico.

Those long, narrow 3-4 storey apartment buildings are a blight in any neighbourhood.

Actually (and I think Eugene Faludi had a hand in this), Stonegate's more thoughtfully planned than the shotgun bedbug blocks along the Mimico strip--and it's long been a reasonable starter-place for immigrants from Poland or wherever else. Not that the buildings are lovely or anything; but for you to just bunch'em all together makes you sound like a poor-hating yuppie scumbag, you know that?

Come to think of it, even in Mimico, the stuff at the foot of Burlington, Shoreline Towers et al, has an expansive 60s stylishness that out-classes its sleazy bedbug neighbours--of course, I'm not sure whether you either notice or care...

 

[Filip]

Actually (and I think Eugene Faludi had a hand in this), Stonegate's more thoughtfully planned than the shotgun bedbug blocks along the Mimico strip--and it's long been a reasonable starter-place for immigrants from Poland or wherever else. Not that the buildings are lovely or anything; but for you to just bunch'em all together makes you sound like a poor-hating yuppie scumbag, you know that?

Come to think of it, even in Mimico, the stuff at the foot of Burlington, Shoreline Towers et al, has an expansive 60s stylishness that out-classes its sleazy bedbug neighbours--of course, I'm not sure whether you either notice or care...

I had friends in middle school who lived in Stonegate and their parents tried so hard to get them all out of there. Drugs, drunks and gangs are still rampant there. In fact I'd say its relative isolation makes it more of a den for crime than Mimico is.

Shoreline towers are nice, as is their neighbour. I definitely consider those buildings different than the trash beside them. I don't understand how it's poor-hating to hate bad architecture, planning and a wall of bedbug palaces which disconnect the Mimico strip from some of the most beautiful waterfront land in the city.

 

[junctionist]

Etobicoke has the Kingsway strip. ECC is an afterthought of urban planning.

That's too bad since ECC is an important area on Etobicoke's only subway line with a lot of development activity. The Kingsway is beyond the scope of my comments on new high-rise design in Etobicoke.

 

[taal]

So in many ways, what were building here, throughout this area of the waterfont, seems very much a kin to the MCC of the late 1990s ... deplorable ... or is it ?

Sure the individual architecture is good, maybe even great, but less the waterfront it self, there's no sense of community here, like MCC is trying to establish through all the new public / retail spaces.

I think the problem in Toronto is simple, in developments like this one, and Concord Park Place in North York, we get to take the attitude of; We already have the 'downtown', so there's no need to build a real mixed used community, just a bedroom community.

You know what, maybe that's OK, we already have NYCC / Y&E, the whole downtown core, and to a much lesser extent SCC, these serve as the 'core's. The suburbs are establishing their own.

But is this all a missed opportunity ? Could lake shore not be the next mixed use 'core' ? I think it's too late for us here.

 

[Filip]

So in many ways, what were building here, throughout this area of the waterfont, seems very much a kin to the MCC of the late 1990s ... deplorable ... or is it ?

Sure the individual architecture is good, maybe even great, but less the waterfront it self, there's no sense of community here, like MCC is trying to establish through all the new public / retail spaces.

I think the problem in Toronto is simple, in developments like this one, and Concord Park Place in North York, we get to take the attitude of; We already have the 'downtown', so there's no need to build a real mixed used community, just a bedroom community.

You know what, maybe that's OK, we already have NYCC / Y&E, the whole downtown core, and to a much lesser extent SCC, these serve as the 'core's. The suburbs are establishing their own.

But is this all a missed opportunity ? Could lake shore not be the next mixed use 'core' ? I think it's too late for us here.

The 'Lakeshore' already has a vibrant retail strip to the west, stretching from ~Park Lawn to Long Branch. Yes, this is primarily a bedroom community and will continue being such. Westlake does provide more a city centre feel with its generous retail, but the real heart will be whenever Mr. Christie's gets redeveloped. I easily see it becoming a Shops of Don Mills sort of property.

Realistically there is very little developable space for the 'core' you're envisioning. A thin strip of land bound by Lake Shore Blvd and Marine Parade won't cut it.

 

[maestro]

Humber Bay Shores is a missed opportunity in many ways however, it's also the prime location for the resort type atmosphere it is developing. In an ideal world, every community would have its share of commercial space beyond some token retail however, with the demand for larger floor plates and ever shrinking workstations , it's impractical.

I've noticed over the many years a common misconception that a balanced ratio between commercial towers and residential towers should be near 1:1 when in fact one office tower can actually house the residents from a dozen or more condo towers.