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How big a debacle is the Sheppard line?

Unless the signals are timed, a ROW won't work on Sheppard. Lets look at it this way. In the time it takes the SPADINA STREETCAR to get from Front to Bloor, the Sheppard bus can go from Don Mills to Meadowvale. :)

The main reason for this is on Spadina is the priority signals are not turn on thanks to the city.

TTC is aware of this problem, but it is out of their hand and is in the hands of the traffic folks.

Queen Quay has the same problem.

Unless PIORTY signals are given to any type of transit service, ROW will be better than mix traffic, but not much more.
 
I believe the signal priority is activated on Queens Quay. It does produce a significant improvement, but of course the problem of left turners on that street is far less severe than on a street like Spadina.
 
I believe the signal priority is activated on Queens Quay. It does produce a significant improvement, but of course the problem of left turners on that street is far less severe than on a street like Spadina.

Yes they are on the Queen Quay, but don't work. Sat a number a times up to 3 reds before the driver runs the red. Even when there is no car traffic in the first place, the priorty fail to opperate.
 
Let me add that while I think that light rail can play a primary role in connecting together suburbs like North York and Scarborough, I still believe we need the subway as the backbone of the system.

Scarborough Centre is a logical place to end a subway line and a logical place to start a light rail network (along with an existing local and intercity bus terminal), and with some heavy redevelopment I think the same could be said about York U.

Subway, light rail, and suburban rail... each has a role to fill and each has a situation where they make the most economic sense. We need them all, not just subways.
 
"Scarborough Centre is a logical place to end a subway line and a logical place to start a light rail network (along with an existing local and intercity bus terminal), and with some heavy redevelopment I think the same could be said about York U."

That makes tons of sense. Vaughan and Malvern do not need subways. Since several 905 municipalities are mulling over variations on the light rail theme, it'd be great if they could all work together to build a network that ran across the outer suburbs and came into the 416 and met with the subway in places like STC and York U rather than have the subways endlessly run out to the suburbs.
 
Completely agree. Scarborough Centre is definitely the perfect spot for the subway to end, with light rail extensions to Malvern, and perhaps Markham and UTSC.

A perfect first route for real light rail in Toronto is the Stouffville GO corridor. It's guaranteed to be well-used from day one.
 
The Stoufville corridor would good for both light rail and suburban rail. There's easily room for both and should be looked into as part of the SRT replacement study.
 
Subway, light rail, and suburban rail... each has a role to fill and each has a situation where they make the most economic sense. We need them all, not just subways.

Here here!
 
Article

The error of our subways
While the rest of the world gets it right, Toronto is trapped in a transit wasteland
May 7, 2006. 01:00 AM
CHRISTOPHER HUME
TORONTO STAR

This is the final article in a three-part series by Christopher Hume on the issues that most stirred readers of the Sunday Star's What If? report on April 16. The other two issues were making the city more pedestrian-friendly, and making it more green.

This week Hume writes about readers' desire for a better transit system.

Some time during the last two decades, public transit in Toronto took a wrong turn. As a result, what was once "the better way" is now the lesser way.

But Sunday Star readers made it clear after the recent What If? package that they want the Toronto Transit Commission back on the rails.

Of course, the TTC isn't entirely to blame for its woes. The government of Ontario, starting with former Conservative premier Mike Harris and continuing under Premier Dalton McGuinty, has done most of the damage through devastating funding cuts. The TTC is now the only major transit operation on the planet that must make up the bulk of its funding through the ticket box.

Under chief general manager Rick Ducharme, the TTC has adopted a strictly nuts-and-bolts mentality that leaves the organization unable to see the big picture.

Any way you look at it, the commission, and Toronto transit users, are now paying the price for years of bad planning, deferred maintenance, and political interference.

More than anything, however, it is the politicization of transit that has caused untold resources to be wasted and opportunities missed.

The most egregious example is the line to nowhere — the Sheppard subway. It was the brainchild of former mayor Mel Lastman, who, with his fellow politicians, ignored all the best advice and carried on regardless, wasting $1 billion in the process.

Such is the price of vanity.

As respected Toronto transportation consultant Ed Levy points out, the subway should have been built west of Yonge — not east — to the Downsview Station. That way, he argues, we would have taken a giant step toward maximizing transit usage.

"Connections are key," Levy says. "The connection between Yonge and Downsview is the missing link. If we had built that, we'd have a genuine network. Building the subway east of Yonge was a bloody shame."

But even more than the "missing link," says Levy, we should have built a "pre-metro" on Eglinton Ave.; specifically, an advanced light-rail vehicle system, partially underground, partially above, that could be expanded into a full subway when necessary.

This should have been priority number one, he insists, not satisfying the vanity of our political masters.

Instead, Eglinton — the only road that travels through all the former municipalities forcibly amalgamated in 1998 — is a messy and inefficient patchwork of bus routes that leaves thousands of users ill served.

In Levy's plan, the Eglinton LRT would travel underground in a "shallow tunnel" from Leaside to Keele St.

Beyond that, it would be above ground at both ends, east and west. The stations would be modest and close to one another. The line, he explains, should extend all the way from Scarborough to north Etobicoke and Pearson Airport. It could be constructed at a fraction of the cost of a full-fledged metro.

`Toronto is one of very few cities with streetcars in mixed traffic. It's a killer'

Ed Levy

Transportation consultant

The station at Yonge and Eglinton would then become a major hub, the centre of a transportation grid that provides access in every direction.

Speaking of light-rail transit, Levy doesn't like what he sees here. He calls Toronto's streetcars "appalling."

Because the motor is below the floor, passengers must climb four steps to board the vehicle. By contrast, in state-of-the-art LRTs, mechanical equipment is on the roof, which means the floor is lower and more accessible. This is especially important for seniors and children, as well as people carrying a load.

These vehicles are also lighter, quieter and more energy-efficient. According to Levy, the proof that the Toronto streetcar is inadequate lies in the fact that, despite an aggressive marketing campaign, not a single vehicle has been manufactured and sold to another city.

As he also points out, "Toronto is one of very few cities with streetcars in mixed traffic. It's a killer."

Most frustrating, however, is that intelligent plans for a comprehensive transit system have been sitting on the shelf for nearly a century.

A report prepared for Toronto city council in 1910 proposed a subway network that would have started at Union Station then moved west to Spadina, north to College, west to Dovercourt, north to Bloor, and along Bloor to Dundas St. W. and St. Clair.

From there a streetcar line would extend east along St. Clair to Don Mills, then south to Danforth and Broadview, where the subway picks up again. Also included was a Yonge subway from Union Station to St. Clair.

One might quibble with the details — in 1910, Toronto was a town of 300,000 surrounded by farmers' fields — but even today, the scheme makes more sense than what got built.

The argument now is that we're too poor to build subways.

True, the line to York University has been launched, sort of, but is that the best use of $1.2 billion?

Given York's low-density campus and the wholly inappropriate suburban subdivision recently built at the south end of the university on land the university sold to Tribute Communities, the answer is no. Clearly, York hasn't progressed beyond its outdated, car-dependent mentality.

To be economically viable, subways need densities of between 10,000 and 15,000 people per square kilometre. In other words, an LRT line would be a better solution, especially given that the bulk of ridership will be during school hours.

Currently, York commuters must rely on buses, of which 1,700 travel daily through to the campus. But buses are more polluting and less appealing. As a form of urban transit, they are generally considered inferior to LRTs and subways.

"Land-use patterns outside the city will never encourage transit," Levy makes clear. "It's much too spread out. That's why public transit doesn't have a role to play outside the city. You need high density."

Levy points to cities such as Madrid, Barcelona, Bilbao, and Portland, Ore. Madrid has been especially aggressive in its subway building. Though it's roughly the same size as Toronto in terms of population, it continues to expand its metro, which now reaches to the outer rungs of the city.

Bilbao, which some compare to Hamilton, embarked on an ambitious rebuilding scheme in the 1980s that included public transit. In addition to a new LRT route that snakes its way through the city on a track bed planted with grass, the Spanish steel town commissioned celebrated U.K. architect Norman Foster to design a subway system.

"What they're doing blows your mind," says Levy. "They get money from all levels of government. But the secret is that all levels of government are in agreement. As a result, the systems, especially in Madrid, are tremendously well used.

"If they can do it, why can't we?"
 
"Instead, Eglinton — the only road that travels through all the former municipalities forcibly amalgamated in 1998 — is a messy and inefficient patchwork of bus routes that leaves thousands of users ill served."

Um... two bus routes, the 32 and 34, run the entire length of Eglinton. I don't understand the "patchwork of bus routes" comment.

People think too much about the underlying causes of our lack of subway expansion. Fact is, if Toronto got its fair share of tax dollars we would have no trouble whatsoever building new lines. End of story.

""What they're doing blows your mind," says Levy. "They get money from all levels of government. But the secret is that all levels of government are in agreement. As a result, the systems, especially in Madrid, are tremendously well used."

The two levels of government here are completely in agreement as well. They agree to routinely shortchange Toronto.
 
Um... two bus routes, the 32 and 34, run the entire length of Eglinton. I don't understand the "patchwork of bus routes" comment.

I think he means the large number of routes coverging on Eglinton Station. Off the top of my head, coming from the east you have the Laird, Lawrence & Leslie buses along with a bunch of Eglinton buses. All seem to make every stop they pass on Eglinton.
 
^ Even more converge into Kennedy Station from east of there. 5 routes overlap between Yonge and Laird (34, 51, 54, 56, 100, with all but the 56 continuing on to Leslie...that's 15km of overlapping routes or something equivalent to like the entire Finch West route from Yonge to Humber) but so many routes run along Eglinton east of Kennedy station that the actual Eglinton route is rush-hour only. Someone living at Midland & Eglinton has 8 bus routes to choose from that will bring them to Kennedy station, although only 4 are full service routes (and only the 54 and 34 are full service east of Eglinton station).
 
"I think he means the large number of routes coverging on Eglinton Station. Off the top of my head, coming from the east you have the Laird, Lawrence & Leslie buses along with a bunch of Eglinton buses. All seem to make every stop they pass on Eglinton."

I know. There's also the 100 Flemingdon. But all of those buses only run along Eglinton for part of their routes. The two most common buses on Eglinton run all the way east and west, which is the same effect that a subway would have. In that light I thought the comment was a bit silly.

Anyways, Eglinton has so many routes because it has buses that go all over the place. The 56 ends up at Donlands and the 100 ends up at Broadview, and are the only way to get from the southern part of East York to the northern part along Eglinton without taking the subway all the way around (you could also take the 25 to Don Mills and Eglinton and then transfer onto any westward bus that comes). The 54 only runs along Eglinton to Leslie, and then runs along Lawrence (does anyone know why it doesn't just go along Lawrence the whole way?). The 51 serves Leslie. It's not like a lot of other (smaller) stations where the buses serve primarily the one main road.
 

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