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Honour System/Proof of Payment

N

nstuch

Guest
I've been riding the Queen streetcar almost daily for nearly 2 years and have never seen enforcement of the POP system, ie transit cops come on and check people's passes or transfers. what is the frequency of this actually occuring?
 
Anarchy rules! All sense of decorum has broken down!

For instance, I've noticed more and more people pushing to get on the exit doors on the College car when it gets to Yonge.

I'm not sure of the etiquette. If I'm standing there when one gets on, do I engage in "dork blocking" on behalf of the TTC? Do I shout "They Shall Not Pass!" and hope they retreat? Do I snitch to the driver?
 
I have the same dilemna. If others don't pay, why should I? Maybe they should have turnstiles on exits so no one can sneak on.

Queen's the only POP route, right?
 
I was on a POP-cop'd Queen car a few days ago. They're still doing it...
 
POP cops

My father rode the Queen streetcar a few months ago. He didn't know about/understand the POP system. He paid the conductor at the front of the car but did not take a transfer. Some time later two transit cops came on and kicked him off because he didn't have proof of payment. I believe he also got a ticket.
 
Re: College
Hmm, I'm willing to bet that most of the people getting in using the back doors have have transfers or Metropasses.

3-4 years ago, during the morning rush hour, at Yonge & College, they used to have TTC ticket inspectors who would let people with transfers and Metropasses in from the back door. Maybe the TTC should bring them back.
 
They have them at King and University during the afternoon rush hour.
 
My father rode the Queen streetcar a few months ago. He didn't know about/understand the POP system. He paid the conductor at the front of the car but did not take a transfer. Some time later two transit cops came on and kicked him off because he didn't have proof of payment. I believe he also got a ticket.
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The conductor should have insisted he take a transfer (which is usually the case on Queen).

As an aside, I used to see the transit cops inspecting tickets on the 501 very regularly a few years back, but they seem to have (for whatever reason) come very close to abandoning any sort of enforcement on the 501.
 
Why don't they have an honour system on the Spadina line?

During rush hour it slows down so much because everyone has to get on at the front (except at Dundas, where there is often someone to let you on at the back).
 
"Why don't they have an honour system on the Spadina line?"

Because of the possibility of futher fare evasion due to the transferless transfers at Spadina and Union Stations.

They should really look in to buying automated ticket machines for the line and fare gates for the stations. It would likely pay for itself in operational savings quickly. If loading times were reduced it would be possible to operate the same level of service with fewer streetcars.
 
There was to be a TTC report brought forth some time ago about using the POP on other routes, but it has not shown up yet.

Fare evasion is the most fear issue as this takes place on a daily base for the Queen line today.

It does help in loading of the cars faster than the one door. Then some don't know about using all the doors in the first place.

I think we can live with what we have today for the next 4 years as that is when the smartcards will surface.

Even with the smartcards, there will still be fare evasion.

Lack of enforcement is the sole reason for all this fare evasion. It the fine is set at $200, it would only take a few riders to help to pay for hiring enforcement officers.

A good number of the fare evasions are homeless people.

I have seen people get on the backdoor on Dundas, St Clair and College in the city core. Though I don't work for TTC, I have challenge that person to the point they have show me a transfer or ended up going up to the fare box to pat their fare.

You still need to have enforcement officers once the smartcards arrive to catch the ones trying to get away using the system by reading their card or get on without one and not paying the fare. There are systems out there that will tell the enforcer who has paid or has not using a handheld device and can spot them 15 feet away.
 
It seems we now have the honour system for the TTC

We're not policing riders, says TTC union
May 24, 2006. 02:35 PM
KEVIN MCGRAN
TRANSPORTATION REPORTER

The TTC’s union is telling the systems bus and streetcar drivers not to force passengers to pay their fares as a result of a tide of assaults against drivers.
“It will be up to the travelling public whether they want to contribute to the box,†said Bob Kinnear, president of Local 113 of the Amalgamated Transit Union, which represents 8,500 TTC employees.

“The union is asking its members to act in self defence the only way we can: we will no longer engage in fare disputes with customers. We will not put our safety and our incomes at risk for $2.75.â€

Kinnear told reporters at a news conference today that assaults from passengers against operators rose 31 per cent between 1999 and 2003. He said the commission was doing nothing to stop the assaults and often sides with passengers even after they punch, spit or kick drivers.


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Personally, I'll still pay. I'd get no pleasure of defrauding the TTC. I want them to get the funds they need to create that rumoured Better Buses Scarborough project :)
 
We will not put our safety and our incomes at risk for $2.75.
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Isn't that rather contradictory? I would think that the driver's income is at risk if everybody stops paying a fare. This isn't the first time Kinnear has said that, and his statements infuriate me every time.

Imagine what would happen if Kinnear represented another "essential service" in this city... like the police, firefighters or EMS workers.
 
Collecting the fare is an absolutely essential part of the job. If the driver's not doing that he might as well not drive the bus either.
 
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