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Homelessness and Panhandling in Toronto

Recently, a young man was stabbed to death by several homeless people on Queen St. West for refusing to give them change. It seems that Miller and company don't want to do anything about the homeless issue, because the number of homeless people continues to increase every year. This could be one of the main reasons the tourism industry is suffering as well.

So what should Miller and company do about the homeless issue?

What would 3cp1 do?

Is the tourism industry suffering because of the homeless, or because the tourists are homeless, or what? If it is the "main" reason as you suggest it is, please expain how this is so?
 
I really don't understand how you can blame Miller for seeing homeless people around. New York still has its homeless, even after Saint Rudy rode through town.

I suggest you lay the blame at the province, for institutionalization without proper nets and supports, for social services cuts, at the feds for social service cuts and both levels for loss of funding for public housing.

Apart from a few weirdos (and it's usually the same ones, you know who they are if they frequent the same areas as you), I don't think it's all that bad. Most panhandling is passive, apart from the Tim Horton's doormen, which is about as "aggressive" as most get. Montreal's worse, I find, where homeless take shelter in ATM kiosks all up and down St-Laurent and Ste-Catharine.

What do you say Miller should do? Throw them on a bus to Brampton? Kirkland Lake? Force them into shelters (as if there's lots of shelter space)? Work camps? Throw them all in jail? Please, what's your answer?
 
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I really don't understand how you can blame Miller for seeing homeless people around. New York still has its homeless, even after Saint Rudy rode through town.

Um, sure we can. He's the Mayor. Nobody expects him to eliminate the problem - which would be impossible - but Toronto's problem is noticeably bad, and more needs to be done.


I suggest you lay the blame at the province, for institutionalization without proper nets and supports, for social services cuts, at the feds for social service cuts and both levels for loss of funding for public housing.?

Most of the panhandlers I see seem fairly mentally competent, and they seem to somehow be able to afford cigarettes, funky clothes, tatoos and piercings etc. Lets face it, the down-and-outers you refer to 'are' the harmless ones. It's the young drop-out kids who are the intimidating ones."


What do you say Miller should do? Throw them on a bus to Brampton? Kirkland Lake? Force them into shelters (as if there's lots of shelter space)? Work camps? Throw them all in jail? Please, what's your answer?

So you're giving him a free pass on this one then? There's nothing he can do so we should just ignore the problem? Well there's a family grieving this morning who would probably beg to differ.
 
Um, sure we can. He's the Mayor. Nobody expects him to eliminate the problem - which would be impossible - but Toronto's problem is noticeably bad, and more needs to be done.
I agree. I'm not saying that the Mayor can eliminate the problem, but does the city even have a plan to address the homeless issue of the city?

I for one would like to forget about this distinction of aggressive and passive begging. I certainly think that tourists and locals do not make that distinction when they leave a restaurant, bank or theatre and are affronted with a beggar.
 
Tourist dies after attack by panhandlers
MATTHEW TREVISAN

August 13, 2007

A tourist to Toronto succumbed to his injuries on the weekend after being attacked by an enraged gang of panhandlers in a downtown neighbourhood.

Four panhandlers already facing several assault charges will likely see those charges upgraded after Ross Hammond, of St. Catharines, died of his injuries Saturday, police say.

Councillor Michael Thompson said yesterday that panhandling in Toronto is "essentially out of control."

It has now come to a point, he said, where an innocent person has died.

"I'm saddened obviously to hear that it's come to this," said Mr. Thompson (Ward 37, Scarborough Centre), who was attacked by a panhandler in Nathan Phillips Square in April, 2006.

"It's not unexpected. I think it will happen again if nothing is done."

The city is in the midst of a pilot project to study aggressive panhandling. However, the project doesn't cover the area near Trinity Bellwoods Park, where Mr. Hammond was stabbed.

Mr. Hammond reportedly underwent several operations before dying early Saturday morning after receiving multiple stab wounds during an altercation at about 12:30 a.m. Thursday.

Toronto police said Mr. Hammond and a friend were walking west on Queen Street West toward Niagara Street when two men and two women in their early 20s approached them and asked for money.

They refused, and a verbal confrontation quickly turned into a physical melee. Mr. Hammond, 32, was stabbed in the chest and back, and some of the accused also received minor stab wounds.

One witness said he saw one person sprinting across Queen Street with a knife in his hand. He reportedly attempted to get away by jumping onto a moving taxi, which was left bloodied, in full view of two streetcars.

Reached yesterday at the couple's home in St. Catharines, Mr. Hammond's widow, Kara, said any family statement will be made through Toronto police.

"This is not a good time," she said.

Sergeant Tim Burrows said he didn't expect the incident to affect how visitors view the city with respect to panhandlers.

"I would say 99 per cent of our panhandlers, though some could get aggressive in asking for money ... know their place and what they're doing, and don't affect the majority of the public."

However, at Mayor David Miller's executive committee meeting in late May, restaurateurs said panhandlers routinely steal beer, food and tips from sidewalk patios. A downtown Tim Hortons owner told the committee she was left bleeding after she was slapped in the face by a "panhandler" she asked to leave her doughnut shop.

A two-month city pilot project in which city workers work with people panhandling between 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. in the area from Spadina Avenue to Jarvis Street, and from Yorkville Avenue to Queens Quay, concludes on Sept. 30. A report to the executive committee is due in 2008.

When approached by panhandlers, the public shouldn't make eye contact and continue walking past them, Sgt. Burrows said.

The four accused of no fixed address appeared in court Friday, but could be facing murder charges this week, police said.

On Friday, Sarah McDermit, 22, was charged with aggravated assault, assault causing bodily harm, assaulting a peace officer and obstructing a peace officer. Jeremy Woolley, 21, was charged with aggravated assault, assault causing bodily harm and obstructing a peace officer. Nicole Kish, 21, was charged with aggravated assault and assault causing bodily harm, and Douglas Fresh, 22, was charged with aggravated assault.
 
So what should Miller and company do about the homeless issue?

What would 3cp1 do?

Is the tourism industry suffering because of the homeless, or because the tourists are homeless, or what? If it is the "main" reason as you suggest it is, please expain how this is so?
I would do what Giuliani did. If it worked in New York, why can't it work in Toronto? Tourists do not like to be asked for money by intimidating and rude panhandlers. Not that they're all like that, but I have personally been attacked by a panhandler. If I had been a tourist, I would have considered making it my last visit. In New York, you don't see panhandlers.
 
Homeless in Toronto...

Everyone: I read with interest these articles and posts about the homeless in Toronto - Has anyone ever tried to get a good number on how many there are and which areas have the most homeless? I recall from my mostly 80s trips that alot of young people were attracted to the Yonge Street street scene - I recall older homeless people - just a few in and around the N end of the Eaton Centre - namely Dundas/Yonge.
I remember myself what was done in the 90s in NYC for the homeless-they were not allowed to loiter en masse in places like Penn Station and Grand Central. In the late 80s/early 90s period the homeless problem was worse than today-NYC and San Francisco have the most homeless in the USA with SF the most per capita. I am all for helping the truly down and out-but that attack on that tourist is where I draw the line! That nonsense has to stop! LI MIKE
 
If you give money or food directly to homeless people, you're part of the problem. If people gave their money only to charitable organizations like the United Way, the homeless would be less likely to pick a corner and beg. How many people would sit outside in the blistering heat if all they made was 2 cents a day?

There aren't many beggars at Leslie and Major Mack because you wouldn't exactly rake in very much money there. But even if only one out of every 500 people gave a homeless person 10 cents, you could make quite a bit of cash at a place like Yonge and Bloor.
 
In New York, you don't see panhandlers.
they got them all cleaning the street or their either selling counterfeit prada...

were to soft in this city. Help the ones that deserved to be helped (mentally ill, young people, druggies). Make the others work.
 
Is the issue here panhandlers or homelessness, or is it violent youth crime? If these individuals, collectively are really that violent (as Thompson et. al. asserts), we should have been seeing murders by the dozen daily. We are not.

What I can remember however is homeless people freezing to death or being set on fire by the said killjoys and dying as a result. Where is the outrage? Where is the battlecry demanding that we treat people with mental health illness in a "world class" way, lest our tourists be distrubed by our shame? Speaking of which, I wonder how many of the said suspects aren't from Toronto?

3cp1:

In New York, you don't see panhandlers.

Neither can you in Beijing, or some anonymous gated community. Perhaps you should consider visiting...better yet, move to said locale, instead of replicating your paradise here.

AoD
 
From the article:
Yet New York now spends $800 million a year on the homeless

So for those of you who are blaming Miller for not doing enough, where is this money to come from?

So you're giving him a free pass on this one then? There's nothing he can do so we should just ignore the problem? Well there's a family grieving this morning who would probably beg to differ.

As has been pointed out, this is an isolated case; the vast majority of homeless people are not violent. This needs to be treated as a murder case, and while I think most of us agree that homelessness as an issue needs to be addressed, in the case of this murder there are more far-reaching problems. We need to look into problems of youth alienation, the oft-cited phenomenon of entitlement among today's youth, and what exactly led to the murder. But please let's avoid the "panhandling is out of control" hyperbole, as if it gets worse every day and now-they-think-they-can-murder-us. Before you get carried away with the "homeless are dangerous/violent" stereotype...

What I can remember however is homeless people freezing to death or being set on fire by the said killjoys and dying as a result.

It was a trio of soldiers who did that.


I see beggars daily on my walk to work. I do not give out money on the street. I don't check my stride, I say "sorry", I continue on my way, and rarely are they anything other than polite.

I am sympathetic but this problem won't be resolved without a solution involving social services. You cannot ignore the problem or resort to banishment as some of the right-wing seem to advocate. We need resources to deal with the problem. As with most problems these days, that means money. I hear whining and blaming from the right-wing but I don't hear solutions.
 

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