Hike taxes more, Board urges

[theman23]

I think I have showed you that there are doctors who would come to Canada and work for $12/hr.

Yes, illegally.

I even know doctors who worked as hard labours for many years, what a waste! Sure, they have no choice since they don't have a license, but they still made the choice to come to Canada.

They came to Canada on the promise of improving their financial standing, not to earn a salary capped at $30000.

I have no illusion that these people will continue to work for that rate for life, but something like 5 years is hardly for life (the foreign doctors I know have to endure much longer than 5 years today) and it's well worth the possibility to practice medicine in Canada in the long term.

So your savings will only last for 5 years? We already have slave-doctors working for that amount of time. Are you going to pay for more residency positions?

Sure, they may not be able to make the same ridiculous amount

Ridiculous? Just look at what doctors make in the United States. Your claim that union-friendly governments are driving up physician salaries is completely off-base. The reality is the exact opposite.

but rest assured, they will still lead a wealthy life.

No, they won't.

 

[species5618w]

Yes, illegally.

They came to Canada on the promise of improving their financial standing, not to earn a salary capped at $30000.

So your savings will only last for 5 years? We already have slave-doctors working for that amount of time. Are you going to pay for more residency positions?


Ridiculous? Just look at what doctors make in the United States. Your claim that union-friendly governments are driving up physician salaries is completely off-base. The reality is the exact opposite.


No, they won't.

You seems to think the US government is not a union friendly government. Guess why the big three auto companies are struggling to compete.

Yes, we do have residency doctors, but there are too few of them. That's my whole point. We have too few doctors and there are a large pool of qualified doctors who are more than happy to practice in Canada for a lower rate. Is that so hard to believe?

 

[theman23]

You seems to think the US government is not a union friendly government. Guess why the big three auto companies are struggling to compete.

For the most part, the US government does not negotiate salaries with physicians.

As I've said many times, go look at the US system. They have much higer numbers oh physicians (both foreign-trained and local), and salaries are considerably higher than in Canada. Why? Among other things, the salaries are not determined by the government.

a large pool of qualified doctors who are more than happy to practice in Canada for a lower rate.

I have no problem with more doctors entering the system, as long as earnings do not decrease. Physician salaries are already kept low, and any influx of doctors into the system without commensurate increase of funding will only serve to make the situation worse. What you're advocating here is exploitation of a group of immigrants, many of whom are desperate for work in their field, simply so tax-payers can save a few bucks. That argument may make sense if we were dealing with a free market here, but, in Canada, we are not. No self-respecting group of professionals would stand by and let this type of abuse go unchallenged, so why should physicians? If Canadians want more doctors, they're going to have to be willing to pay up.

 

[species5618w]

Look at our scenarios:

Mine (according to you): "exploitation of a group of immigrants" for a limit amount of time "so tax-payers can save a few bucks".

Yours: Force these people to work illegally for less money and don't save tax-payers a few bucks.

Sigh, I made my point. I really hope you are a doctor and are just being selfish. Otherwise, I can only weep for the future of our health care system.

 

[theman23]

Look at our scenarios:

Mine (according to you): "exploitation of a group of immigrants" for a limit amount of time "so tax-payers can save a few bucks".

Yours: Force these people to work illegally for less money and don't save tax-payers a few bucks.

No-one is being forced to work illegally. And besides, these aren't even close to being the only factors to take into consideration.

Sigh, I made my point. I really hope you are a doctor and are just being selfish. Otherwise, I can only weep for the future of our health care system.

The only point you've made here is that you are in-fact an ignoramus, with not even the slightest clue as to what is going in our health care system or how physicians are treated.

 

[ganjavih]

Yes, they are practicing medicine. And trust me, these people were head surgeons, front line emergency room doctors, directors of large hospitals back home.

I have no doubt they were practicing medicine back home but they are not practicing medicine here. They are working as assistants for licenced physicians who are practising medicine. Physicians in Ontario don't get paid per hour, they work in a 'fee for service' system. OHIP doesn't pay anyone $12 per hour. OHIP doesn't pay anyone without a licence to practice and billing number.

Personally, I would like to see more foriegn-trained physicians be allowed to enter residency programmes in Canada. I would also like to see some evidence that the College of Physicians paid U of T to admit less medical students, which is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard.

 

[species5618w]

No-one is being forced to work illegally. And besides, these aren't even close to being the only factors to take into consideration.

The college of physicians did by making it extremely difficult for foreign trained doctors to be licensed here.

The only point you've made here is that you are in-fact an ignoramus, with not even the slightest clue as to what is going in our health care system or how physicians are treated.

I know that we pay a lot more than countries like Pakistan, yet a patient from there commented that she never had to wait this long for health care there.

If you think our doctors are treated so badly. why are you so afraid of competitions? Let foreign doctors come and practice medicines freely here and let's see how our doctors compete.

 

[species5618w]

I have no doubt they were practicing medicine back home but they are not practicing medicine here. They are working as assistants for licenced physicians who are practising medicine. Physicians in Ontario don't get paid per hour, they work in a 'fee for service' system. OHIP doesn't pay anyone $12 per hour. OHIP doesn't pay anyone without a licence to practice and billing number.

The OHIP doesn't know about it. As far as the OHIP is concerned, the doctor did all the diagnostics and prescriptions. To be honest, I trust these "para-doctors" more than the doctor. I just think that the taxpayers should reap the benefits rather than the doctor.

Personally, I would like to see more foriegn-trained physicians be allowed to enter residency programmes in Canada. I would also like to see some evidence that the College of Physicians paid U of T to admit less medical students, which is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard.

Actually, I was wrong. It was the OMA who did it. In any case, it's a union of doctors. From answers.com, who was quoting an article on National Post by Terence Corcoran, I believe.

"The OMA was also part of the central planning fiasco of the early 1990s that created the current doctor shortage. Back in 1993, the University of Toronto medical school agreed to be paid $10-million a year not to produce doctors. Enrollment at the medical school was cut 30%. The planning reason: Ontario had too many doctors."

 

[theman23]

Read below.

 

[theman23]

The college of physicians did by making it extremely difficult for foreign trained doctors to be licensed here.

No, the taxpayers/voters and the government did that by refusing to fund more residency spaces.

If you think our doctors are treated so badly. why are you so afraid of competitions? Let foreign doctors come and practice medicines freely here and let's see how our doctors compete.

How? You can't chose what you charge under OHIP.

Moreover, how would you like it if the government artificially limited the collective income of every professional in your field to a few billion dollars, and then decided to mass introduce new practitioners who were vying for that SAME pot of cash? Competition is nice and dandy in a free and open market, but the Canadian health-care system is NOT that. The amount of money being offered in compensation for our services is artificially limited. Again, I can't emphasize this point enough and I don't know why you have such a hard time getting your mind around this.

Anyways, I' done with this. If you still feel strongly about being correct, I'm sure there are some banana republics in the Caribbean looking for a new minister of health. Good luck recruiting physicians.

 

[lordmandeep]

the city could privatize a few things and IMO once Miller is gone, they will be...

For example, why are TTC cleaning staff public workers??? That could easily be done for much cheaper by someone else.

garbages workers as well, could be privatize as well and why not get people off the street to clean the street like in NY???


What I am saying, the city should not be some employment centre, but a place where things are done for the lowest price and best result.

 

[ganjavih]

I know that we pay a lot more than countries like Pakistan, yet a patient from there commented that she never had to wait this long for health care there.

Yup, in any country where you have a private option, you're likely to be able to 'jump the queue'. North Americans and Europeans wouldn't be flying to India to have surgery if the waiting period was too long. What is life expectancy in Canada vs. India or Pakistan though?

The OMA and the College are completely separate entities. The OMA is like the physicians' union and the College is responsible to licencing. So be careful before you make accusations... get your facts straight.