lordmandeep
Banned
well I don't really mind tolls if they are like the US style Tolls, however the 407 was one of the stupidest deals ever signed....
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Highway 407 Revenue
- Thread starter Mike in TO
- Start date
afransen
Senior Member
Fair enough. It's a private consortium, so we probably don't know how much equity they have tied up.
Le Gique
Active Member
Buying land for highways...
I checked with MTO on Wikipedia's reported $100 billion price tag, (which was apparently taken from a quote in Hansard). Here's what MTO said:
1. How much did the government spend on land for the 407, prior to its sale in '99?
* Claims of $100B in property costs are unsupported - and we agree that the number is too high.
* The province initiated the process of protection and acquisition of lands for Highway 407 in the 1950's
* Determination of the actual property acquisition costs would require an examination of MBS and MTO historical records over the past 50 years - unfortunately, such an undertaking would require enormous staff resources.
2. What about the other numbers mentioned in wikipedia entry--$1.6B cost to build--$104-107B total taxpayer investment--are they accurate?
* The central section (68.2 km from Hwy 403 to Markham Rd.) was built for $945 million in 1998.
* Electronic Tolling Technology cost about $90 million.
* The west extension and the east partial extension were built for $507 million in 2001.
* Therefore the total cost to construct Hwy 407 was approximately $1.6 billion.
Probably $100 million to buy the land. Either way, that's what you get when you use Wikipedia
I checked with MTO on Wikipedia's reported $100 billion price tag, (which was apparently taken from a quote in Hansard). Here's what MTO said:
1. How much did the government spend on land for the 407, prior to its sale in '99?
* Claims of $100B in property costs are unsupported - and we agree that the number is too high.
* The province initiated the process of protection and acquisition of lands for Highway 407 in the 1950's
* Determination of the actual property acquisition costs would require an examination of MBS and MTO historical records over the past 50 years - unfortunately, such an undertaking would require enormous staff resources.
2. What about the other numbers mentioned in wikipedia entry--$1.6B cost to build--$104-107B total taxpayer investment--are they accurate?
* The central section (68.2 km from Hwy 403 to Markham Rd.) was built for $945 million in 1998.
* Electronic Tolling Technology cost about $90 million.
* The west extension and the east partial extension were built for $507 million in 2001.
* Therefore the total cost to construct Hwy 407 was approximately $1.6 billion.
M
Millstone
Guest
A temporary one.
M
Millstone
Guest
Wikipedia is not to be trusted as a reliable source on anything, especially Ontario highways. Having said that, 407 ETR is built like a more "quick and dirty" route than anything, but it does it extremely well. The jersey barriers used in the north Toronto part are there because of the rapid expansion that takes place. It's easier and far cheaper to push jerseys over than to demolish Tall Wall every time you want to add a lane.
M
Millstone
Guest
Raising the tolls is a key facet of supply and demand. If you raise the price, less people will use it, and the traffic lessens.
That is true.
M
Millstone
Guest
Why just the GTA? Ontario maintains the entire province's worth of highways.
Hwy 427 is a good GTA example though. Hwy 402 in Petrolia had several vintage 1982 pavement sections that are only now getting replaced. Hwy 401 east and west of Tilbury has faultlines from the concrete underneath poking through that make for an irritating ride.
M
Millstone
Guest
Concrete is found underneath much of the asphalt you drive on. It was paved over because it was easier to do that than to repair the cracks. The 401 through Toronto is mostly concrete. Technology has improved and concrete is making a comeback though, like at 401 in Tilbury, 407 between Mississauga and Markham, etc. It remains to be seen what they use in St. Catharines when it gets rebuilt... I'd like to see it go back to concrete like it was 70 years ago!
M
Millstone
Guest
You're spot on with the 407 comment. Also the Middle Road part of QEW (Mississauga/Oakville) isn't in the greatest shape, but Oakville is going to be upgraded soon. We already lost the Fourth Line bridge and next up is the Bronte Service Road bridge. After that it's hopefully smooth sailing to link up those new spans on the QEW!
Remember also that Harris downloaded a lot of services, including provincial routes to the lower governments in 1997/1998. Sometimes the municipalities themselves are to blame (Hamilton).
M
Millstone
Guest
It's a great business and I'm glad to be a customer of theirs.
US style tolls are horrible, you mean a mix of EZ-Pass and coin?
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Ed, I've got to ask you again, do you even drive on the highways in the GTA? I almost had a wheel torn off on a foot deep pothole on the 401 outside of Milton this morning. The entire 400 series highway system is covered in potholes, well, except for the 407 somehow.
Staggering Number Of Potholes Keep City Workers Busy
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_19755.aspx
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I agree. Especially for a small business consultant like myself, where I can write off 100% of the cost of the toll against what I would've have to pay the taxman anyway.It's a great business and I'm glad to be a customer of theirs.
I do the DVP, 404, 401, 427 and Gardiner often enough and I've not seen much in terms of potholes. I can't speak about anything beyond the city.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
I just drove the 401 yesterday, and it is indeed filled with potholes. They're all very new, though, so they've probably been caused by the hard winter. They should be fixed pretty soon, I'd imagine.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Yes, but where are the potholes on the 407?