rbt
Senior Member
The #1 job of every politician is to get re-elected. Wynne will want to turn it into an 8-year term.
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High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto
- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
The #1 job of every politician is to get re-elected. Wynne will want to turn it into an 8-year term.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
And realistically, serious transit projects isn't a one-term outcome.
AoD
AoD
MrsNesbitt
Active Member
Especially a project of this gargantuan magnitude.
I said it when this news first broke and I'll say it again now; Murray bought off more than he could chew with this HSR project. All the Liberals would've needed was frequent electrified GO service, with EMUs running at reasonably high speeds, to KW. Sure I'm a proponent of HSR getting people off of highways, but let's be honest with ourselves here, do we truly see TGVs racing through southwestern Ontario any time soon? I don't see it as likely for now. And if HSR comes, it would be exponentially more useful in a Toronto to Ottawa or Montreal route than to London.
To close my ramblings, let's just say that although some kind of HSR or provincially funded service to replace VIA in this province (which is pretty crappy, let's not lie) is a great direction for us to take, but I can't help but think that AD2W electrified GO service on every line plus a Bolton Line and maybe a Seaton Line would've been a more noble goal than throwing so many eggs in an HSR basket.
That all being said, I still like the HSR idea. Paradoxically.
MisterF
Senior Member
GO to Bolton or Seaton serve completely different purposes from HSR to London. It's not an either/or thing. Besides, if a line to London is biting off more than the government can chew, don't you think that HSR to Ottawa and Montreal would be even less realistic? I think that if the federal government and Quebec wanted to play ball the Ontario government would be all over it. But until then they're focusing on a relatively easy HSR project that they can achieve by themselves, and that's the Kitchener/London line. We have to stop thinking so small in this country. 160 km of HSR isn't what I'd call gargantuan. It probably isn't that much more complex than a faster, electrified GO line either, considering the extra ridership and revenues it would bring in.
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mrxbombastic
Active Member
http://www.citylab.com/commute/2014/06/the-triumphant-return-of-private-us-passenger-rail/372808/
Interesting article on High Speed Rail in Florida and how it stacks up against the Odds.
Some important points I found it draws out:
1. High Speed rail needs to be accompanied by real estate investment around the stations for any real hope of it being profitable.
2. A strong emphasis on place making to drive demand for the service.
3. Having the infrastructure in place and owned by the operator is a big financial weight off the shoulders (we do not)
I think Ontario should look to see how this all goes down and take some lessons about what goes right and wrong.
Interesting article on High Speed Rail in Florida and how it stacks up against the Odds.
Some important points I found it draws out:
1. High Speed rail needs to be accompanied by real estate investment around the stations for any real hope of it being profitable.
2. A strong emphasis on place making to drive demand for the service.
3. Having the infrastructure in place and owned by the operator is a big financial weight off the shoulders (we do not)
I think Ontario should look to see how this all goes down and take some lessons about what goes right and wrong.
dowlingm
Senior Member
"Triumphant return" which the residents along the route are fighting tooth and nail. It looks like the only way it will get done is if notes are issued at *12%* interest to avoid some public funding which then eliminates a bunch of opportunities for the opponents to derail the project. Railroad.Net thread on All Aboard Florida is here.
DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
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So. Murray is out, Del Duca is in. Thoughts on if the HSR proposal will survive the shuffle?
dunkalunk
Senior Member
The business case and feasibility study still need to be done. Being that both are relatively inexpensive, I can see those going ahead, especially since Wynne is proposing the exact same budget as last election. After that, once the Trudeau Feds led by get involved, I can see scope expanding to include the TOR-OTT-MTL corridor.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
Murray has a habit of musing about pipe dream projects that have no chance of being built. Now that he has been kicked out of the transport ministry, this is unlikely to happen. The Ontario government is short of money, Wynne wants to implement her pension plan proposal which makes it harder to raise taxes and Wynne will probably have to backtrack on her promise of no cuts when Ontario gets hit with a ratings downgrade. Ontario is going to end up looking like France's socialist government with Manual Valls as prime minister. I suspect the vast majority of transportation money will go to the GO train system, high speed rail won't happen, and lots of other projects (e.g. controversial LRT lines) will get delayed until 2020 or cancelled to pay for this. Never mind ridiculous proposals like building a bridge to Wolfe Island.
dunkalunk
Senior Member
To add to my previous post, nothing was likely to get constructed for another eight years. There's at least 4 years of study and lobbying the feds that needs to happen before any detailed construction plans happen. HSR won't be on the radar again until the next election cycle.
TOareaFan
Superstar
maybe but Murray spent a lot of time promising it would be operational in 6. ....3 years of studying and 3 years of construction is what he was touting before and during the election.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Maybe he can find and steal a picture of himself walking away from an exploding train line like he found and stole the image of hudak and the hospital
Admiral Beez
Superstar
The ON gov't is going to be facing a huge financial shortage. I can't see where money can come from for new infrastructure and transport projects, let alone upgrading those we already have. I'd say a big corporate tax increase is forthcoming, plus sell offs of several crown corps, including the LCBO, for short term 407-like liquidity.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
No it isn't. Our credit rating would be destroyed if we were in that rough of shape. In reality we have a large amount of debt, but nothing dangerous that would require austerity.
If you can't see where the money will come from I would suggest you check out the budget, it outlined how and where the money comes from.
If you can't see where the money will come from I would suggest you check out the budget, it outlined how and where the money comes from.
dunkalunk
Senior Member
I highly doubt that Wynne would take a line from the Harris playbook by selling off public assets. I do see a corporate tax increase as a real possibility though. I also see a 1-point increase in the HST, business parking levy, and HOT lanes on 400-series highways being serious possibilities. Hopefully, the province will also nudge Toronto to start tolling municipal highways.
Pie-in-the-sky is to legalize and then tax the hell out of marijuana, although I doubt that would happen on anything but a federal level.
Pie-in-the-sky is to legalize and then tax the hell out of marijuana, although I doubt that would happen on anything but a federal level.