High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

[steveintoronto]

A) CN may have walked away from the table, thinking that with Wynne trailing badly in the polls, the bypass is back to being a hypothetical. That leaves ML needing to say they have a plan, when their plan just evaporated. They can't say they are still negotiating, because CN may say (or it may just leak out) that the negotiation is dead. So, we draw lines on a napkin that remove any need for a bypass negotiation. Er, map.

Or to be more cynical even, that CN's and QP's "Agreement in Principle" was nothing more than convenient vapour for PR exercises, and perhaps other 'benefits' unspoken for CN. I took flak for calling it that at the time, and still insist that it will take an imposed (or the threat of being imposed) rearrangement that involves both CP and CN, and it must come from the federal level.

Precious time is wasting. This is going to cost a bundle to do, but it has to happen at some point, so with the Feds looking to put the other half of their Infrastructure Funding to use (barely half if that of it is yet accounted for), best they take an initiative on this, as I can't see it happening any other way.

And to continue with my cynical view on this, from the federal stance, it would be a 'nation building exercise' to justify the massive sums spent in Ontario, and it could well be justified as a large benefit to the nation.

At the same time, it would give the Provincial Libs some badly needed rope to announce some breakthroughs in actually completing promises made.

 

[MisterF]

I think this is really more of an economic stimulus project than a transportation project, which makes it much less stupid.

There's precedent for this kind of thing. The 400 extension to Sudbury for example. Billions spent on a project that will never recover its costs and isn't needed from a purely transportation perspective. It's an economic development project. Whether these kinds of investments are a wise use of money is debatable, but they're very common on a smaller scale and on a large scale for projects we're used to like highways. High speed rail is new in Canada so it's subject to a higher level of scrutiny and cynicism.

 

[ehlow]

How many tech companies (or other companies) are running shuttle buses with wifi for employees between Toronto and KW? There seem to be at least a few, not for daily commuting, but for day trips to the other office to work with people there. I wonder how big and how frequent Google buses are?

Hard to imagine a future where you could take Eglinton line to Mt Dennis, switch to a GO train to Kitchener, then take Waterloo LRT.

 

[lead82]

It is indeed hard to imagine such a future in Ontario. This project has no legs. It’s been announced and re-announced without any progress at all. With the election result likely to be a Ford government, this infrastructure funding will be first to be cut. Instead I can see Ford funding 401 widening to 3 lanes all the way from Milton to Windsor.

 

[Streety McCarface]

It is indeed hard to imagine such a future in Ontario. This project has no legs. It’s been announced and re-announced without any progress at all. With the election result likely to be a Ford government, this infrastructure funding will be first to be cut. Instead I can see Ford funding 401 widening to 3 lanes all the way from Milton to Windsor.

It makes more sense to add a third rail tunnel from Detroit to Windsor and expand the CP line to 3 tracks than to widen the 401 to 3 lanes between London and Windsor. Why would Ford do such a thing?

 

[Urban Sky]

It makes more sense to add a third rail tunnel from Detroit to Windsor and expand the CP line to 3 tracks than to widen the 401 to 3 lanes between London and Windsor. Why would Ford do such a thing?

Of all the potential rail capacity expansion projects in Canada I can possibly imagine, I struggle to identify one which would have a lower Benefit-to-Cost Ratio (BCR) and enjoy a lower priority than adding a third track on the short 2,600 meter section where trains have to pass underneath the Detroit River...

 

[kEiThZ]

Oh...I thought what the minister was saying was that someone in Brampton wanting to go to KW or London would train eastward to Pearson or Union and then take a highspeed train back on the same tracks to their destination. Since there is no plan to take the GO train into Pearson that meant Union to me and it sounded bizarre to think someone would do that.

Depending on what time of day you are traveling. If you're at peak, you just catch a westbound train to Kitchener:

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalplanning/rer/rer_kitchener.aspx

You would only have to backtrack to Malton/Pearson to catch the HSR, during midday service, or hopefully have hourly midday service to Kitchener.

 

[maxt797]

I just read about this announcement from last week in the news.... $11 Billion for a "high speed" train that still takes 73 minutes to travel distance of 200 kms??????? What is she smoking???

 

[steveintoronto]

I just read about this announcement from last week in the news.... $11 Billion for a "high speed" train that still takes 73 minutes to travel distance of 200 kms??????? What is she smoking???

I'd like to ask Ms Wynne: "Will that be Hydrogen powered?" Or just Vapour?

And in the event of an accident at that speed, will it be a "Hydrogen Bomb"?

 

[hw621]

I'd like to ask Ms Wynne: "Will that be Hydrogen powered?" Or just Vapour?

And in the event of an accident at that speed, will it be a "Hydrogen Bomb"?

I think max797 meant that it is too slow...

 

[narduch]

At this point isn't every Liberal promise a hail mary pass?

They have made so many spending promises that I don't think we can take them all seriously.

 

[steveintoronto]

I think max797 meant that it is too slow...

I clearly read that.

Yet the claimed speed is:

Electric-powered trains will move at speeds of up to 250 kilometres per hour on a combination of existing track and new dedicated rail corridors. The high speed trains will dramatically reduce travel times -- to an estimated 73 minutes between London and Toronto Union Station. This will give people a faster and greener way to get around, and will help businesses attract talented workers from across a wider area.

https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2018...-to-build-first-phase-of-high-speed-rail.html

Notice the announcement states "electric"...not "hydrogen" (albeit the drive is electric post fuel cell). But if it is Hydrogen, even in incremental release form, it won't be pretty in an accident at 250km/hr.

As @narduch observes, they better get their claims straight. Make no mistake, I'm completely in favour of *higher speed rail* (HFR form) for that corridor. (At least to London, not Windsor) It should have been instituted decades ago, but how can we now believe the promises built on broken promises built on the graveyard of broken dreams?

And to top it all off, the Ford Factory would build highways over top of that same multi-layer cake of baseless dreams and hopes.

 

[TOareaFan]

Depending on what time of day you are traveling. If you're at peak, you just catch a westbound train to Kitchener:

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalplanning/rer/rer_kitchener.aspx

You would only have to backtrack to Malton/Pearson to catch the HSR, during midday service, or hopefully have hourly midday service to Kitchener.

Seems a while ago I posted that....when was it.

Your posting of a link gave me hope the service plan had changed for the corridor but when I click it I see this:

The bottom bullet point clearly states that the rush hour service between Kitchener and Union is uni-directional. There is 30 minute service from Kitchener in the morning rush and from Union in the evening rush.

So, someone wanting to connect from Brampton to Kitchener (either for school or work) will still have to backtrack east on GO in the morning to the point where they can catch the HSR (either Malton or Union I guess) for their morning commute and in the evening will have to blow back through Brampton to connect with a westbound GO service to finish their ride home.

Or, you know, drive.

 

[narduch]

I clearly read that.

Yet the claimed speed is:
https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2018...-to-build-first-phase-of-high-speed-rail.html

Notice the announcement states "electric"...not "hydrogen" (albeit the drive is electric post fuel cell). But if it is Hydrogen, even in incremental release form, it won't be pretty in an accident at 250km/hr.

As @narduch observes, they better get their claims straight. Make no mistake, I'm completely in favour of *higher speed rail* (HFR form) for that corridor. (At least to London, not Windsor) It should have been instituted decades ago, but how can we now believe the promises built on broken promises built on the graveyard of broken dreams?

And to top it all off, the Ford Factory would build highways over top of that same multi-layer cake of baseless dreams and hopes.

I would love to see HSR.

But this promise is pretty easy for Conservatives or critics in general to pick apart. The costs are huge.

Have we learned nothing from UPX?

 

[innsertnamehere]

That is the initial service plan. The province is planning all day GO service to Kitchener, but it's not a part of the RER service plan, it's at a later date since it requires the freight bypass. At least, that is my understanding.