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Harper Proroguing Parliament again

It's tongue-in-cheek. Democracy is not efficient. You're proposing totalitarianism instead? It allows China to get things done quickly (their stimulus was delivered very quickly, for instance), but I don't think that effectiveness is worth the cost.
 
Admiral Beez said:
I'm beginning to think that Parliament and all those MPs and civil servants are a waste of money. The government seems to be running well without their input. Reminds me of the Toronto city strike, where except for the garbage collection, the absence of the entire city bureaucracy was hardly noticed by most.
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Just a little point, but the MP's and public servants do constitute the government. Unless you're trying to be ironic, if there is no public service and no elected representatives, then there is no government. There would be nothing "running."
 
Did anyone see the Peter Braid - Rae/Dewar stand-off on Power Play? Wow, no wonder they prorogued. Youtube it!

The PMO = GOP
 
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^^ That video = win

But the Conservatives need to go NOW. The more I think about it, the more it becomes obvious that not only do we need a left-wing government at this time of crisis on all fronts (Afghanistan, Global Warming, Political reform, Economic turndown, Western opportunities, specifically Canadian progress opportunities,) that can think creatively and in the big picture.
Not only that, but we aren't even dealing with the real conservative party anymore. What exists now is a false image of what was actually once a reputable party that has made significant advances through this country. The new conservatives are also wrongly filling an important gap that the real Canadian Conservatives filled; a uniquely Canadian slight right-wing stance. The only reason they've gotten this far is because there's nobody that seems to be better.
 
GenerationW said:
That's a pretty big reason, especially if the Tories pull out a majority next election.
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Ah when I say that, I mean leaders. If the Liberals just had someone who could politically compete with Harper, they'd surely win. I just don't think people trust Ignatieff to do that. As far as policy and direction, I think there's a very large Liberal/left sway, enough for a majority, but Stephen Harper just has the political know-how that he can artificially control people's opinions and appear to be in control. So basically, we just need an average Liberal (or maybe even NDP) leader, and Harper's gotta be outta there.
 
GenerationW said:
That's a pretty big reason, especially if the Tories pull out a majority next election.
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With the polls going as they are, the Cons are going to lose a significant chunk of seats. Have you seen the latest seat projections which show Libs+NDP close to majority territory combined?
 
^ Yes, they may really regret proroguing Parliament.

Harper might need Canada to win the Gold in men's hockey.;)

(These new smileys are crap!)
 
Before you vote out the sitting government, ask yourself, what all-encompassing evil against the citizens of Canada has the Harper Gov't unleashed? How would Canada have faired were it Dion or Ignatieff or Layton in charge? Our diplomatic relations with the US? Global community? And remember the Harper Gov't has endorsed a significant number of policies with Liberal/NDP backers pushing them forward, so to say they're only pursuing their own self-interests and not the common good is disingenuous. You can keep the Conservatives perpetually in a minority position if you like, but don't readily assume that another party/leader is any more capable for the task at hand (fixing the economy - Harper ignored the Liberal's supposed fix and as result of his own initiative Canada has one of the healthiest economies in the developed world).

As for prorouging Parliament... who cares, 3 three more weeks paid vacation for the bureaucracy, I should be so lucky. I wouldn't risk glory-seeking politicians smearing the government's image during an international televised event where the world's gaze is on us and our affairs, either. Obviously the gov't is still functioning, the world hasn't stood still.
 
McGuinty ponders to prorogue the legislature

Looks like McGuinty is going to prorogue the Ontario Legislature later this month. This guy is such a weasel.

Link to article

Protests against Harper have McGuinty thinking twice about prorogation
By Keith Leslie (CP)

TORONTO — The protests and condemnations that greeted Prime Minister Stephen Harper's decision to prorogue Parliament has Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty thinking long and hard about proroguing the provincial legislature later this month.
The unprecedented protests against an arcane parliamentary procedure have made many more Canadians aware of prorogation, said McGuinty, and not in a good way.
"One of the challenges that we have now politically is that prorogation has become a bad thing," he told reporters.
"My mother is now aware of what a prorogation is and she thinks prorogations are bad."
McGuinty's Liberal government is more than halfway through its second mandate - with an election scheduled for October 2011 - and it wouldn't be unusual for a premier to prorogue the legislature and return with a throne speech outlining a new government agenda.
Sources say McGuinty has been considering delaying the legislature's scheduled return on Feb. 16 by two or three weeks to give the new cabinet ministers who were sworn in Jan. 19 more time to get up to speed on their portfolios.
That way the government could return in early March with a speech from the throne, followed by the provincial budget, which McGuinty has promised will detail the Liberals' plans for eliminating a record $24.7-billion deficit.
However, the backlash faced by Harper has McGuinty taking his time to make a decision about proroguing, which he insisted is not always a bad thing for a government leader to do.
"Some are good and they serve a good public policy purpose, so we've got to keep all of that in mind as we have our deliberations," he said. "(I) haven't made a final decision on that and it's something I continue to ponder."

Join Facebook group Stop Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty attempts to prorogue Ontario Legislature on February 16, 2010.
 
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Keep in mind that there is nothing inherently wrong with prorogation. The most important difference between McGuinty and Harper are twofold:
* Harper prorogued to run away from a Parliamentary 'subpoena' compelling him to produce documents which will likely be embarrassing to the government
* Harper prorogued against the will of Parliament, and he used it as a weapon as descrribed above. McGuinty has a majority.
 
Fresh Start said:
Before you vote out the sitting government, ask yourself, what all-encompassing evil against the citizens of Canada has the Harper Gov't unleashed? How would Canada have faired were it Dion or Ignatieff or Layton in charge? Our diplomatic relations with the US? Global community? And remember the Harper Gov't has endorsed a significant number of policies with Liberal/NDP backers pushing them forward, so to say they're only pursuing their own self-interests and not the common good is disingenuous. You can keep the Conservatives perpetually in a minority position if you like, but don't readily assume that another party/leader is any more capable for the task at hand (fixing the economy - Harper ignored the Liberal's supposed fix and as result of his own initiative Canada has one of the healthiest economies in the developed world).

As for prorouging Parliament... who cares, 3 three more weeks paid vacation for the bureaucracy, I should be so lucky. I wouldn't risk glory-seeking politicians smearing the government's image during an international televised event where the world's gaze is on us and our affairs, either. Obviously the gov't is still functioning, the world hasn't stood still.
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Hmm, well he's made a fool of the country on the international level both at the UN and at the Copenhagen conference, and has basically refused any other forward thinking. If the liberals had gotten in power, we'd see significant infrastructure advances, probably better economic stimulus, and that stimulus going towards projects that'll benefit the country in the future.

Also, the biggest reason why Canada hasn't been affected as much as other countries is because of the big Canadian banks, which is basically a system that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world. We probably would have been better off than other countries without even any government interference.
 
For some reason it's not surprising at all that Fresh Start spouts Conservative Party talking points.

Your point abut Harpers economic plans is particularly insane, as you should recall that Harper's initial economic approach was to ignore that there was any kind of economic downturn. That's what sparked the coalition thing.
 
On the Copenhagen front, the UN has recently acknowledged the unique position that Canada is in with regards to imposing emissions cutting measures while our economy is tied to a trading partner not so inclined. This came out during Copenhagen.

http://www.thestar.com/news/science...le/736948--climate-chief-gives-canada-a-break

I don't consider it an embarrassment at all for a government to stand up for what's in the best interests of the country. I had a prof who represented Ontario during the original Kyoto negotiations. To this day he feels anger at the Chretien administration for blind-siding them. They agreed to a 2-3% cut. Then the feds went off to Kyoto and came back with a 6% cut all because Chretien wanted to outshine the US, completely oblivious to the fact that the US could have negotiated anything they wanted because the US Congress was not going to ratify Kyoto anyway. I am deeply suspicious of Liberals who throw up commitments without sincere analysis on what it will cost to actually cut emissions and with particular regard to what that cost will be in the middle of a recession. I honestly think that Chretien really didn't care what he would agreed because he knew he would not be the one implementing emissions cuts. This time around I don't want that. Anybody pushing for cuts better be ready for some absolutely honest and frank discussions on what it'll take. And buying hot air credits from Russia is not going to be an acceptable solution. I also want to see a plan that doesn't cut emissions on the back of the Alberta oilsands. Like it or not, we are a country that exports oil that the rest of the world uses. Half the provinces in this country have and depend on oil for revenue. Simplistic suggestions that emissions can be cut by cracking down on the oil sector will imperil our economy and national unity. I can't vote for a leader who does not understand that. Iggy's made some encouraging statements on this front. But Dion most certainly did not understand this.

As for the economic stimulus, just look at how that's turned out. As predicted the stimulus is only kicking in now, and economists and the BoC are now worried that the stimulus is going to drive inflation. Imagine if the stimulus had been as large as the Liberals and NDP had wanted.

That said, I am deeply upset at Conservative meddling in the banking/finance sector. Their expansion of CMHC's credit has put us on the verge of a massive housing bubble.

All this has left me deeply disappointed and disengaged. I really would not know who to vote for in the next election. Knowing what I know about Colvin's memo on the Afghan detainee issue, I don't believe the Liberals are all that innocent on this front, and I deeply resent the fact that they are using this issue while soldiers are dying in the field as a political wedge. But I am equally disappointed at the Conservatives very close-minded and secretive nature, their mismanagement of the finance sector and to some extent their mishandling of the country's finances. The NDP has always been a write-off for me. They are shameless about their moral equivocation and duplicity. There's no party to vote for, for somebody like me. sigh. :-(
 
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GraphicMatt said:
For some reason it's not surprising at all that Fresh Start spouts Conservative Party talking points.

Your point abut Harpers economic plans is particularly insane, as you should recall that Harper's initial economic approach was to ignore that there was any kind of economic downturn. That's what sparked the coalition thing.
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What may be surprising to you then is that I actually voted for the Liberals in the last election. Even had their sign on my front lawn. Oh how times have changed.

What's particularly insane is the assertion that Liberals/New Democrats were anymore aware of what was coming, let alone that they're prepared for it. A year in advance of the downturn Harper forewarned rough economic times were ahead, those most choose to gloss over that fact. And virtually everyone knew the gov't would impose deficits by the spring of 2008. Beyond that, it was completely out of Canada's control just how far the global economy would collapse. Nobody can reasonably expect governments to see the future.
 
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