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Harper Proroguing Parliament again

afransen said:
Keith, I think your closeness to the issue is clouding your judgement. The Liberals have been abundantly clear that the CF has behaved honourably and in good faith with respect to prisoner transfer, and the fault lies with the policy. They acknoweldge that previous Liberal governments had a role to play, which is why they asked for an inquiry over the period 2002 - 2007. The present government failed to address concerns about prisoner torture in a timely manner, and then covered it up. There is no fault on the part of the CF, as they were following policy set by Ottawa, and rigorously documenting any issues surrounding torture that did arise, and reporting it back to Ottawa. No one is attacking the troops, but the Conservatives sure are hiding behind them, which is reprehensible.
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I will be honest, the current Liberal talking points seem to have shades of Somalia there. They tarnished an entire military and disbanded a regiment with (until then) an unblemished record of decades, all for the actions of a few bad apples. If Chretien did that then, why should those of us in uniform not be equally concerned about what's going on today? Though to be fair, I do think Iggy is bit more level headed than Chretien, who did not hide his scorn for the military at all.

What bothers me though is that the Liberals don't seem to be taking any responsibility for their hand in the current mess. Much of the detainee policy and even some of the rules of engagement date back to the Kabul committment under Chretien. Yet, they seem to want to pin the whole mess on the Conservatives.

That's not to say I think the Conservatives have been absolutely stellar, playing games with the briefings they've been given, the memos and notes they have, refusing to hold an inquiry, etc. But I don't think it's right for the Liberals to say that all 100% of this whole mess is for the Conservatives to wear since nothing happened at all while the Liberals were in power. The detainee procedures and policies have not changed much on the ground from the Liberals to the Conservatives. So it's hard to see how the Conservatives could be any more culpable than the Liberals on this one.

And this makes me wonder why the Conservatives aren't calling an inquiry. They're rep is already tarnished. Why not rub some of that dirt on the Liberals as well, if you wanted to play politics (something I don't really approve of, when it comes to war and security policy)?
 
The detainee procedures and policies have not changed much on the ground from the Liberals to the Conservatives. So it's hard to see how the Conservatives could be any more culpable than the Liberals on this one.
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It hasn't been demonstrated yet that the Liberals had knowledge that torture was a likely result of the prisoner transfer policy and failed to act to remedy it in a timely fashion. Based on what we know so far, you can't say the same thing of the Conservatives. This is why there should be an inquiry so that these memos can be used to clear up the matter. I don't trust the government to police itself.
 
nfitz said:
Few are more cynical about the Harper government than I. But I fail to see the relationship between a lack of gold medals, and our political leaders. Nor do I see any potential fall-out. I don't recall any recriminations against Trudeau after we failed to win a gold medal in 1976, or any mention of our Olympic performance in the 1979 election. Or against Mulroney in 1988, even in the election held later that year; it certainly didn't cross my mind when I voted against him!

I really don't think that the Olympics will have much impact on the current federal political situation. Tory MPs and cabinet will likely be avoiding Vancouver as much as possible, as they know that pictures of them at the Olympics while the rest of us are working would impact their polling. Obviously the PM has to make an appearance or two ... and presumably the Minister responsible for sport, whoever that is these days, should be there ... but I expect they will be trying to keep a very low profile!
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I expect quite the opposite. The PM and government ministers will be as visible as possible.
 
afransen said:
I expect quite the opposite. The PM and government ministers will be as visible as possible.
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Given the huge hit that the Tories took in the polls proroguing Parliament, I'd think that they know being highly visible in Vancouver would be political suicide.
 
I find it odd that people dismiss the CAPP group, but a major part of CAPP is protests that they have planned across the country to demonstrate against Harper's proroguing of parliament (again). It's not just a Facebook group.
 
The dismissive comments in the media have become a lot quieter of late; which isn't a surprise given the core of their case was that Canadians don't really care. The sharp drop of Tory support in the polls has demonstrated quite clearly how out-of-touch those commenting were.

Also the comments were dissing a Facebook group of 20,000, 30,000 ... and even made comments that they would be hard to take seriously even if they hit 100,000. Currently they are closing in on 200,000 ... I don't think anyone has identified a bigger Canadian Facebook group.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I find it odd that people dismiss the CAPP group, but a major part of CAPP is protests that they have planned across the country to demonstrate against Harper's proroguing of parliament (again). It's not just a Facebook group.
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Let me know when their protests or Facebook group stats do anything to change the situation.
 
picard102 said:
Let me know when their protests or Facebook group stats do anything to change the situation.
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Surely it already has ... look at how much the Tories have dipped in the polls since Christmas. If nothing else, it will make the PMO think twice about their next move.
 
The protests are tomorrow. I wonder what the optics will be? Do Canadians care about Harper's proroguing of parliament? I think they are against it. Party on (the hot seat!)!
 
Just a reminder:
No Prorogue!
RALLY
Date: Saturday, January 23rd
Time: 1:00 pm local time
Location: Dundas Square (Southeast corner of Yonge and Dundas)
Rally March Route: Start at Dundas Square, South on Yonge to Queen. West on Queen to Bay. North on Bay to College. East on College to Yonge. South on Yonge to finish at Dundas Square.

http://noprorogue.ca/toronto/
 
No thanks, the rally will consist of the same old usual suspects... unionist, labourites, liberals, dippers, socialists, communists and the like. I'm sure it will be a repeat crowd during G20 visit this summer. However, enjoy, this is what living in a free country is all about. I'm sure the same can't be said in downtown Havana or Caracas.
 
jade_lee said:
Do Canadians care about Harper's proroguing of parliament? I think they are against it. Party on (the hot seat!)!
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I'm beginning to think that Parliament and all those MPs and civil servants are a waste of money. The government seems to be running well without their input. Reminds me of the Toronto city strike, where except for the garbage collection, the absence of the entire city bureaucracy was hardly noticed by most.
 
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