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GTHA Transit Fare Integration

Then wouldn't Metrolinx start loosing large amounts of money? The entire point of the fare system is that some people are disadvantaged while other people are advantaged. The goal should be to hand out the advantages in the fairest possible manner. If everyone started picking plans that benefited them, like 905ers taking a flat fare and downtowners taking a pay-by-distance fare, everyone would win. That implicitly means that Metrolinx would loose.

I'm not saying that every possible option should be available. A flat fare, for example, going from Hamilton to Oshawa would cost the system way to much to be affordable. Not all transit riders should be lumped together under one plan though. It should be flexible so that each group of transit users sees some advantage.

For example, people who need to transfer let's say from a bus in Burlington to one in Hamilton everyday could sign up for unlimited transfer between the transit systems. This would only work between Burlington and Hamilton - transfers to the other systems would still require a new fare. Adding this option to your plan would cost something - you might save something like 25% at the end of the month, hopefully less. I don't think GO would be able to function with a flat fare so that option wouldn't be offered.

Think about it like the Metropass or the discounted fare on some 905 systems when people get off GO. Sure you lose money, but the convenience attracts people.

The more people that ride transit the more people care about transit the more people vote to improve transit. I've always thought a 1% municipal sales tax would make a lot of sense when it comes to funding infrastructure.
 
But if transit looses money per rider (50c on the TTC, right?) attracting more riders will grow system revenues, but profitability will remain constant.
Well... that depends. If your schemes can be optimised to push ridership onto underutilised parts of the system then maybe you don't have to add buses and streetcars elsewhere but are increasing total ridership.

As it stands the TTC knows virtually nothing about its ridership because it doesn't track them and nothing about its scheduling because CIS is crap, they don't seem to analyse what little it provides and they are only now putting inspectors back on the streets. What service they do put on on-street is hampered by lack of all-door-boarding which increases dwell time. If streetcars can move faster because of shorter stops, eliminating left turns and vicious traffic enforcement, the same number of streetcars can move more people because they can make more runs.

The transferable metropass was a victory for Toronto citizens because holders made off peak journeys, some of which replaced car or taxi journeys they would have taken before owning a metropass, reducing pollution and congestion. For the TTC this was a "disaster" because they had rides they reckoned they weren't getting incremental revenue for. This analysis typified the TTC's and Toronto bureaucracy's financial analysis.

First of all, this analysis was mistaken because for most people, buying a metropass was an increase in money tendered to TTC. For someone buying tokens in February or December with a low number of working days, they were using 34-36 tokens a month rather than 40 but a pass costs over 40. So not all the extra rides are "free" because this is revenue they wouldn't have had before. Before transferability, the commuting rider paid about $84 a month for tokens. After transferability, fare increases and the transit pass credit, the rider paid about $80 net of credits but the TTC received about $90-100 depending on whether they were on the discount plan. That nets out to more money even taking increases in fuel into account.

Secondly much of the extra ridership came off-peak, so no extra vehicles had to be purchased because it was merely filling half-empty vehicles. Some capacity was added to bring routes up to 20 minute headway and that likely increased ridership even more because people don't like having to wait 30-45 minutes for a bus. The major part of the net expense therefore was rostering on routes where capacity was added from normally idled vehicles, which is not nothing but certainly less than an increase in peak ridership which has capital impact too.

The Toronto transit network can move more people without proportional cost increases - it will just require sharp pencils in the planning department and more frequent appearances by TTC rider counters than when TTC management wants an excuse to chop a route, and Chief Blair will have to be told that traffic congestion IS a police matter and his department has to fix it within its own budget not TTC's.
 
Time base of 2 hours or 1.5hr with the same cost being the same no matter what area you are in and at to today rates. Some rates would go up while other go down.

Get on an Burlington bus and travel where you want to go. If your trip is longer than 2 hours, you pay another fare when you tap off. You will be require to tap off to validate your time, otherwise you will be charge a max of 4-6hr rate.
 
That would be a simple and effective way of doing things, arguably better than zoning the GTHA. I really thought though that this would be Metrolinx's first priority when it was created 5+ years ago. Crazy that they are only getting around to this now.
 
Time base of 2 hours or 1.5hr with the same cost being the same no matter what area you are in and at to today rates. Some rates would go up while other go down.

Get on an Burlington bus and travel where you want to go. If your trip is longer than 2 hours, you pay another fare when you tap off. You will be require to tap off to validate your time, otherwise you will be charge a max of 4-6hr rate.

Doesn't basing it on time rather than distance double punish people who live in areas not served, or underserved, by the more rapid forms of transit? If you are pushed onto the slower forms of transit but travel the same distance as someone who has more/better access to more rapid transit, you are more often going to go over your 2 hour time limit.
 
That would be a simple and effective way of doing things, arguably better than zoning the GTHA. I really thought though that this would be Metrolinx's first priority when it was created 5+ years ago. Crazy that they are only getting around to this now.
More often we are too concerned about building subways and LRT when its things like this which can make the biggest difference for those who are using transit and even attract new people.
 
What I'd like to see is this:

GTA%20System%20Map%20-%20To%20Scale_NoBackground.jpg


The fare structure would work like this:

-All fares would be valid for a period of 2 hours.

-Local bus/streetcar service is a one zone fare, regardless of distance travelled.

-Base fare would be $3.00.

-Local Rapid Transit (LRT, BRT, Subway) Base Fare + $1.00 for each extra zone travelled.

-Express Rapid Transit (GO REX, GO, Express BRT) Base Fare + $1.50 for each extra zone travelled.

-Riders would tap onto the RT route and be charged the maximum amount for that line. When they exit that line they would be refunded the difference between the max for that line and what they actually spent.
 
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I think the base fare should be lower if it will increase base on zones, distance or time. For example, on the TTC a $2 base fare + $1.00 for each extra zone, x kilometres, or minutes. A lower base fare might encourage riders to use the TTC for more shorter trips (less money per trip but more trips overall). However, the 2 hour transfer time might also encourage more people to use the TTC for shorter trips.

Also, this system will still charges people for longer distance/time travelled, but may seem less like an extra charge.
 
I think the base fare should be lower if it will increase base on zones, distance or time. For example, on the TTC a $2 base fare + $1.00 for each extra zone, x kilometres, or minutes. A lower base fare might encourage riders to use the TTC for more shorter trips (less money per trip but more trips overall). However, the 2 hour transfer time might also encourage more people to use the TTC for shorter trips.

Also, this system will still charges people for longer distance/time travelled, but may seem less like an extra charge.

The key is finding a price that makes short trips economically viable, but also doesn't make longer trips either too cheap or too expensive. Too high of a base fare and you drive away short trips. Too low of an extra zone fare and you might as well just have a flat fare. Too high of an extra zone fare and you're potentially driving people away.

And remember, this fare zone structure needs to work for the entire GTHA, not just the TTC. Finding the right balance for local vs mid-range municipal RT vs long distance GO fares in a single fare structure is tricky.

Also, with the fare zones themselves, too many of them and the map/system becomes too complicated to figure out. Too few of them and you're forced to increase the cost per zone, because there are fewer of them.
 
What I'd like to see is this:

GTA%20System%20Map%20-%20To%20Scale_small.jpg


The fare structure would work like this:

-All fares would be valid for a period of 2 hours.

-Local bus/streetcar service is a one zone fare, regardless of distance travelled.

-Base fare would be $3.00.

-Local Rapid Transit (LRT, BRT, Subway) Base Fare + $1.00 for each extra zone travelled.

-Express Rapid Transit (GO REX, GO, Express BRT) Base Fare + $1.50 for each extra zone travelled.

-Riders would tap onto the RT route and be charged the maximum amount for that line. When they exit that line they would be refunded the difference between the max for that line and what they actually spent.

First, that is an incredible map you made!

Second, in Toronto I think GO should be treated as a TTC Downtown Express service. This means that going anywhere to anywhere within the city limits is $5.65 cash, $5.30 tokens/Presto, or an extra $2.65 with a Metropass. If transferring from another service, it is $2.65 cash or another token.

That said, you can get the Downtown Express Metropass for $166.25. So with 40 monthly trips using GO it comes to $4.15 - not including any extra trips you take using regular TTC services.
 
Same here, and it made my browser crash twice!
That's because it's a 19 MB JPG with 24,000x18,000 pixels.

How about some common sense ... I can download it, and get to see a bit of it, but very difficult to see anything. It would be a lot more funcational if you hadn't overlain overtop of a photograph ...
 

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