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GTHA Transit Fare Integration

Palma said:
what is this 4th concept?
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No details, only:
A fourth concept based on the findings from the evaluation of the previous three concepts, has been developed that offers a long-term transformative objective. The business case and evaluation of this concept will be completed for the December 2016 board meeting.
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I suspect it's going to be something to allow them to start with one, (something incremental from the status-quo) but transition to another. (better fare integration)
 
Markster said:
No details, only:

I suspect it's going to be something to allow them to start with one, (something incremental from the status-quo) but transition to another. (better fare integration)
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Toronto : Baby Steps 20 Years Too Late Our Strength

Sadly, that's probably actually the best move, balancing rider convenience and fiscal /political reality. Curious to see detail.
 
I still say Fare integration the way poel want it to happen won't happen as the transit agencies all want to be paid the fare they think is right at the end of the day. If that means you have to pay extra to ride a go train from Danforth go station to union and then take the TTC from there then so be it. Besides once you can load a TTC metropass onto a presto card you are not paying an TTC fare with it any more now if only Go transit could have some sort of monthly pas option
 
Then the question remains, why are other cities capable of proper integration while Toronto remains a collection of squabbling fiefdoms? The province should just merge all the transit agencies into one. Put highways under the same umbrella while they're at it. If that model can work in London, Sydney and Vancouver there's no reason why it can't work here.
 
I'm starting to think maybe the current lack of integration isn't so bad. For example,iIt does keep the Rexdale people out of Mississauga, which is obviously a good thing.

That's who fare integration would mostly benefit: Toronto's outer neighbourhoods full of criminals like Rexdale, Jane-Finch, Malvern... if the City of Toronto doesn't care about these people to reduce their isolation and give them more different opportunities, then I don't see why the 905 should care either. Fare integration is 100% a Toronto problem, as far as I'm concerned.

Rest of the 905 is already integrated with each other and with GO. And while TTC doesn't provide any service outside of Toronto's borders, the 905 systems and GO already provide a lot of service within Toronto. So from a 905 perspective, fare integration with TTC is not necessary and no one should not be pushing for it especially if the TTC is not.

If there is fare integration, it's the TTC who should be paying for it 100%, not the 905. The 905 should not pay a single penny to Toronto. The 905 systems already stretch their budgets to provide connections into Toronto, and not only does the City fo Toronto not reciprocate, it bans the 905 systems from picking up passengers within its borders. As a result of Toronto's hostility, cost recovery ratios of the 905 systems are below 50% while TTC is 70%. So it's obvious that if there is a cost to fare integration that the TTC should bear that cost 100%.
 
doady said:
I'm starting to think maybe the current lack of integration isn't so bad. For example,iIt does keep the Rexdale people out of Mississauga, which is obviously a good thing.

That's who fare integration would mostly benefit: Toronto's outer neighbourhoods full of criminals like Rexdale, Jane-Finch, Malvern... if the City of Toronto doesn't care about these people to reduce their isolation and give them more different opportunities, then I don't see why the 905 should care either. Fare integration is 100% a Toronto problem, as far as I'm concerned.

Rest of the 905 is already integrated with each other and with GO. And while TTC doesn't provide any service outside of Toronto's borders, the 905 systems and GO already provide a lot of service within Toronto. So from a 905 perspective, fare integration with TTC is not necessary and no one should not be pushing for it especially if the TTC is not.

If there is fare integration, it's the TTC who should be paying for it 100%, not the 905. The 905 should not pay a single penny to Toronto. The 905 systems already stretch their budgets to provide connections into Toronto, and not only does the City fo Toronto not reciprocate, it bans the 905 systems from picking up passengers within its borders. As a result of Toronto's hostility, cost recovery ratios of the 905 systems are below 50% while TTC is 70%. So it's obvious that if there is a cost to fare integration that the TTC should bear that cost 100%.
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Well said and 'm sure that extly what the TTC is saying to Metrolinks. To me tit makes no sense at all each transit system in the GTA should have their own fares just like they do now. But I'm from Toronto so my opinion probably doesn't matter because all of the people coming in from outside of the city want to be able to pay the same fare for everything as well.
 
doady said:
That's who fare integration would mostly benefit: Toronto's outer neighbourhoods full of criminals like Rexdale, Jane-Finch, Malvern... if the City of Toronto doesn't care about these people to reduce their isolation and give them more different opportunities, then I don't see why the 905 should care either. Fare integration is 100% a Toronto problem, as far as I'm concerned.
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If the choice is between additional TTC subsidies for a reduced co-fare OR incentives for business to establish in Toronto via reduced business taxes or something else then I choose reduced business taxes.

If the concern is employment I think a subsidized transit co-fare is one of the least efficient ways of increasing employment levels of Toronto residents.

$30M in small business grants or even a residents preference for police/fire hires (put $30M into extra education/training to make it possible) would be much more effective. I'm guessing co-fare subsidy is around $30M/year; does anyone have a more exact number?
 
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doady said:
As a result of Toronto's hostility, cost recovery ratios of the 905 systems are below 50% while TTC is 70%. So it's obvious that if there is a cost to fare integration that the TTC should bear that cost 100%.
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That sounds like really odd explanation of the cost-recovery differential. Where is the evidence to justify that claim?

And FYI, Rexdale is right by Malton - and if you look at the various analysis around income by census tract, the area in the eastern end of Mississauga isn't doing all that great either - plus we know criminals all take transit right?

AoD
 
doady said:
it bans the 905 systems from picking up passengers within its borders.
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Surely not a blanket ban? Pretty sure, for example, I have gotten on and paid for a ride on a BT Zum bus at York University....and a lot of people do that...and York is within Toronto's borders....I presume the people using Zum to get to Humber college are also using it for their return trip too.
 
TOareaFan said:
Surely not a blanket ban? Pretty sure, for example, I have gotten on and paid for a ride on a BT Zum bus at York University....and a lot of people do that...and York is within Toronto's borders....I presume the people using Zum to get to Humber college are also using it for their return trip too.
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There was a silent "except at very few designated points" at the end of that.
 
Even if nothing happens after all this debate, which in Toronto's case will be the expected outcome, there is one thing Queen's Park should force down the 905's throat.......one transit agency per region a la York Region. There is no excuse as to why Miss/Bramp or Oak/But or Ajax/Osh should all have different transit agencies when in the same region. That alone will get rid of a lot of needless transfers and create a far more connected and seamless system. The other thing that should be done immediately which wouldn't hurt anyone's revenue is having 100% of the local fare deducted from the GO fare. The GO fare would remain the same except if they have a transit ticket/pass so the local agencies wouldn't see any decline in ridership { perhaps even an increase from those now taking local transit to get to their station as opposed to driving} and yet it would help relieve overcrowding on the local buses and subways as more move over to GO.
 
Good luck with that. That amalgamation of services will almost certainly lead to higher service costs, similar to how it did in Toronto, since operator unions will refuse to take a pay cut.
 
Why stop there? Amalgamate all the transit agencies in the GTHA under Metrolinx regardless of municipality.
 
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