micheal_can
Senior Member
Could this be a first step towards BRT/LRT in the Halton region? That is what happened with the YRT and DRT.
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GTHA Regional Transit Amalgamation Discussion: Superlinx/Subway Upload
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Transportfan
Senior Member
If one transit system is created for Halton, that would leave Peel as the only region that still has lower-tier transit. Kind of ironic giving the age and extent of urbanization there, but sort of making sense given its geography of having only two cities on top of one another with no other cities in the region on either side of them as they both span it.
ShonTron
Moderator
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With Caledon increasingly served by Brampton Transit. It’s the one place where regional transit isn’t at all necessary.
Transportfan
Senior Member
I don't think it's so much that because Caledon could be served by regional transit. Along with the municipalities spanning the region, its also a matter of north-south routes needing to be split anyways due to length, which the Mississauga/Brampton boundary area is already very suitable for.
just east of the creek
Active Member
Burlington and Oakville had an LRT …… but it ended in 1925 due to lack of business. And it’s not returning. And by all accounts the Dundas BRT will be nothing but a city bus running a normal route in traffic with a differing paint colour.
Let’s not get carried away with any notions of mass transit beyond enhanced GO and VIA service, in combination with improving bus based transit.
Sunnyside
Active Member
Who’s to say.
Trafalgar is bound to get something someday, as development north of Dundas continues to sprawl, and it is quite dense for suburbia. It might come down to if the residents think an LRT is a sexy idea for their ‘town’. Halton/it’s municipalities can afford it.
We’re talking a timeline of 30+ years with RTPs. You don’t think a N/S LRT or BRT is possible?
just east of the creek
Active Member
Re Trafalgar. I can see some higher order of bus service extending from the Oakville GO transit node northwards, connecting with the college, Dundas transit node, GO bus connections at the 407 and then northwards to Milton. (I would copy that on Brontë Road as well)(And further west along Waterdown Road) Trafalgar from the GO station northwards could support a BRT type development at some point in its future.
Beyond that, we are not comparing densities or distances with the Hazel Line connecting Steeles Avenue to the Port Credit Go. I do not see where LRT requirements are met. And we are certainly not tunneling down Trafalgar past the Oakville GO to the Lakeshore (the Brampton ask). Certain fiscal realities need to be recognized in all of these discussions.
The Dundas BRT is another issue entirely. An express service, separated from otherwise clogged traffic, would be advantageous. I hear that it will be initially delivered as a very low order of transit, basically a different paint colour running east-west on Dundas and will not become a proper BRT until well into Mississauga. Others, such as Drum, probably have greater insights into this project.
I am sure Halton residents have as great an aversion to paying higher levels of taxation as anyone, and they currently pay a higher property tax rate then Toronto (but less then Mississauga) . Capital infrastructure has been/is being spent on major bridge east/west connections between Burlington and Oakville (at least three projects), and the development of the regional road system to support the growth of Milton.
All of this discussion re a Halton Regional Transit system is far down the list. Major changes in transit serving the region will first come through Metrolinx - both rail and bus.
urbancog
Active Member
Classic.
Let's build car-centric developments and when traffic becomes untenable try to overlay some transit a extraordinarily high cost.
Or... let's start planning now for appropriate transit infrastructure to support Halton's 75% increase in population over 30 years.
qubyte
New Member
Long time lurker here, my first time posting something. I wanted to shed some light on the Halton Region Transit Proposals. Below are some of the proposals from 2019 for some of the BRT-related transit projects.
This presentation to the council (July 2024) discusses more of the governance and amalgamation of transit services: https://edmweb.halton.ca/OnBaseAgendaOnline/Documents/ViewDocument/Transit Priority Corridor CA-18-24 PW-17-24 Presentation to Council.pdf.pdf?meetingId=4479&documentType=Agenda&itemId=127612&publishId=80242&isSection=false .
In light of LRT and BRT proposals, there have been quite a few proposals by Oakville and Milton during their draft transit master planning stages, however, none of them have gone past that stage into the operational plans. None of the plans seem to go to a BRT level of transit corridor, the proposed Oakville transit plan mentions a frequent network route along Dundas and Trafalgar.
In terms of Metrolinx's Proposals and planning this report from 2018 shows some of the frequent transit projects, not sure whether some of these have been axed or not: https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/...l_Transportation_Plan_Final_-_EDIT_kk1qax.pdf
It seems that with the planned density along Trafalgar from Oakville Go to the Trafalgar Rd. @ Hwy. 407 Park & Ride seems to be the highest priority candidate for a LRT or BRT project.
My first time posting, I apologize if this is a repeat of something discussed earlier or off-topic rambling.
This presentation to the council (July 2024) discusses more of the governance and amalgamation of transit services: https://edmweb.halton.ca/OnBaseAgendaOnline/Documents/ViewDocument/Transit Priority Corridor CA-18-24 PW-17-24 Presentation to Council.pdf.pdf?meetingId=4479&documentType=Agenda&itemId=127612&publishId=80242&isSection=false .
In light of LRT and BRT proposals, there have been quite a few proposals by Oakville and Milton during their draft transit master planning stages, however, none of them have gone past that stage into the operational plans. None of the plans seem to go to a BRT level of transit corridor, the proposed Oakville transit plan mentions a frequent network route along Dundas and Trafalgar.
In terms of Metrolinx's Proposals and planning this report from 2018 shows some of the frequent transit projects, not sure whether some of these have been axed or not: https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/...l_Transportation_Plan_Final_-_EDIT_kk1qax.pdf
It seems that with the planned density along Trafalgar from Oakville Go to the Trafalgar Rd. @ Hwy. 407 Park & Ride seems to be the highest priority candidate for a LRT or BRT project.
My first time posting, I apologize if this is a repeat of something discussed earlier or off-topic rambling.
just east of the creek
Active Member
Yes, these numbers. Under the current goverments let’s invite everyone in immigration program, possibly you see these numbers. What the numbers do not illustrate is the myriad problems this policy and the related unprecedented growth has already created. And the lacking physical response to solving them. I am not sure that immigration policies do not change in the next election and we’ll see where we stand.
Nevertheless, Halton has been historically planned as a car centric universe, no surprise there. As I noted elsewhere once, this thinking started to change when I was a teenager, I can still see the volumes of studies and planning about the new city of Mississauga when our Clarkson home was swallowed into that same Mississauga. My father had them stacked around and I am sure they still exist in some dusty library. And then the first Mississauga Transit buses ran around (converted school buses). So planning has been changing, painfully to some and slowly to most others, and always affected by the politics of the day, but you need a profound cultural shift to really move the needle. And seeing that Ford has ditched the electric Oakville Car plant in favour of the Oakville Super. Duty Pickup Truck plant, I am not sure the full scale cultural change is underway as yet.
P.hysically, when you look at those numbers, Burlington would have to continue to mainly densify, as it is just about built out, excluding existing employment lands, which you will need to reach the employment numbers and service the general population numbers,
Oakville has a greater amount of land extending to the 407 to build out on, and is, but densification will be required and more of those parking lots need to go. The Mid-town planning process around the GO station is an example of the struggle the city is going through attempting to reach those goals.
Milton probably had the larger ‘canvas’ to plan with.
Halton Hills is much more rural in nature, excluding Brampton West (Georgetown) and then Acton.
All of this lateral growth is at the expense of valuable Class 1 farmland by the way. So remember food security amongst all of this thirst for more sewers.
Although conventionally, higher levels of transit may be part of the planning process from early in the process, politically we are not ready for implementation until traffic levels become vote deciders. The fact that we are overlaying higher level transit on communities that began growing with speed after 1945 should not really be a surprise.
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micheal_can
Senior Member
I had asked about the chances of seeing BRT or LRT. To be fair, my definition of BRT is as little as a bus of a different livery to full grade separated bus routes, and then tracks street running to tracks fully grade separated.If we remember far enough back Viva was basically just different buses. Today, it is much more. Sounds to be that something could be possible, even if it just a bus of a different look.
This is good to see that there have been ideas put forth.Maybe that is part of the reason for the amalgamation.