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GTA handed Conservatives their majority

grey said:
I fear the new party would gradually drift to the centre.
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The centre isn't a bad place to be, though there will be more to it than that. The existence of PR will promote the growth of new political parties just as it has in Europe and the vote will split again. A new left wing party will form to cater to those who dislike the new centrist party. Likely a new social conservative party will form so that they don't have to hide their agenda behind the guise of fiscal conservatism. The greens would also have a much higher profile. We may even see single issue parties like the MJ party or the Pirate party take a seat or two. It would be great to see everyone's voices heard in parliament.

If we ever get an elected senate there would be an opportunity there to also maintain a regional/riding representative system like we have now. I don't see why we can't have the best of both systems.
 
Hipster Duck said:
The results show that Canada is still a left-leaning country so, if anything, we should have a split between two left-of-centre parties. I also really abhor the idea of a two party system like the United States. You also never know on the right: the conservatives became an Ontario party, and particularly, a GTA party with increasing ties to Ontario old money and power that used to be safely in the hands of the Liberals. As the conservatives begin to have more of an Ontario/Bay street presence, it might begin to alienate some of their Alberta base - particularly far right wing, social conservatives in rural ridings who vote primarily based on their moral compass. Could we see a split on the right, with a federal wing of the Wildrose Alliance?
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I think that's a likely scenario, but I'm not comfortable with the timeline (too long).
 
ladyscraper said:
A lot of those seats that went Conservative actually voted towards the left if you add the NDP and Liberal votes... everyone could see even before the election that the conservatives can't be beat with all the vote splitting going on by the left.
The reason the conservatives are so successful now is because they are the only right wing party.. they merged their parties years ago and now reap the rewards. Are the left of centre parties too stubborn to do the same? Probably.
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Has anyone done the count on the number of those seats that supposedly went Tory via vote spliting? I know that driving in this morning someone on the radio attributed Brampton Springdale as a vote split win for the tories.....but when I do the math it looks like this:

Brampton Springdale - Tories 48.31% - Combined NDP/Lib 47.48% - Tories win regardless

Just wondering if this is more myth than fact?

If these parties do merge....does that mean that they really are the same? I always viewed the Libs as being right between the right and the left....a real centrist party....has that been wrong all along or would a merger just be an abandonment of what they believe in for the sake of getting power back?

For those advocating proportional representation over the FPTP system, how would it work? If the 308 seats were just divided up amongst the parties based on their popular vote, would the Tories not still be in government today with around 122 seats....so perpetual minority governments? If the seats are just divided up, who would pick the actual members of parliament that get those 122 seats (or less in the case of the other parties)?
 
ladyscraper said:
A lot of those seats that went Conservative actually voted towards the left if you add the NDP and Liberal votes... everyone could see even before the election that the conservatives can't be beat with all the vote splitting going on by the left.
The reason the conservatives are so successful now is because they are the only right wing party.. they merged their parties years ago and now reap the rewards. Are the left of centre parties too stubborn to do the same? Probably.
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Nicely put. The surge by the Left sideswiped the Liberals and helped elect Conservatives. Looking at this longer term, the main dynamic is the strengthening Left - with this as the mid-point in their ascent even though it appears to be a setback.
 
No. FPTP is fine. Just cause the Cons won does not warrant change of anything.

The GTA is stupid and they will suffer the most once they find out Harper will not run a surplus once and their taxes will not be lowered.

Reread Hipster Duck again because that is what is most likely what will happen.
 
theterribleone said:
No. FPTP is fine. Just cause the Cons won does not warrant change of anything.

The GTA is stupid and they will suffer the most once they find out Harper will not run a surplus once and their taxes will not be lowered.

Reread Hipster Duck again because that is what is most likely what will happen.
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FPTP isn't wrong because it just happens to be benefiting the Conservatives right now. It's wrong because it leads to a government that does not truly represent the will of the people. It was as bad when it benefited the Liberals as it is now.
 
Vote splitting occurs every election. There's always be a few seats where this in painfully evident.

The real story is that the Conservatives got over 44.4% of the vote in Ontario and won 73 seats. You have to go back to 2006 since anyone got that many votes in Ontario when the Liberals got 44.7% of the vote and 75 seats.

Vote splitting isn't the issue here. The issue is that Ontario overwhelmingly supported the Conservative party.

In Ontario were up over 5% from the 39% they got in 51. They gained 22 seats in Ontario (mostly in GTA), and only gained 2 seats in the rest of Canada; given that there were 2 independents elected in 2008 (Arthur and Casey) who both tended to vote with the Conservatives, they really had no gain in Canada outside the GTA.
 
If there's any bright side to all of this, it's that Toronto's representation in Ottawa will increase.

And if you guys think this is the world ending, just wait until the Provincial elections. Sadly, McGuinty and the Liberals deserve nothing less.
 
"You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free?" - The American President

I think this sums up what democracy is, nice and simple.
 
JWBF said:
"You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free?" - The American President

I think this sums up what democracy is, nice and simple.
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I am glad to see somebody else like that quote.

Unfortunately, very few people want free speech anymore. Neither the conservatives nor the progressives want free speech. Liberalism is a dying breed because it is a lot easier to put one's fate in somebody else's hands, whether it's God or an almighty government.
 
PCC, I'm trying to understand the response you made commenting on my post and what that had to do with previous Liberal governments?

My point is that Harper was voted into power by Southern Ontario and that voters were motivated by economic considerations. Furthermore I suspect that these economic considerations were about either maintaining the status quo or anxiety about near future economic considerations.

I don't think people here appreciate the extent to which average middle-class people are having their disposable incomes squeezed. It is tough to see how these people will react to future economic conditions and what these economic conditions will be? However personally I see no relief on the horizon. My point is that external economic factors that the Federal Government has little control over will have a huge influence over how well people in Southern Ontario do over the next 4 years. And how well they do will translate into either a solidification of Conservative gains or a rejection of their majority status.
 
archanfel said:
I am glad to see somebody else like that quote.

Unfortunately, very few people want free speech anymore. Neither the conservatives nor the progressives want free speech. Liberalism is a dying breed because it is a lot easier to put one's fate in somebody else's hands, whether it's God or an almighty government.
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Political correctness has done more to kill off free speech than anything else. Who's responsible for that crap?!
 
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