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Duck
Guest
I didn't realize it was a regular occurrence. Under what scenario has this happened in the past?
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Great Platform Height Debate: Subway-Style Level Boarding for GO Trains
- Thread starter mdrejhon
- Start date
I didn't realize it was a regular occurrence. Under what scenario has this happened in the past?
mdrejhon
Senior Member
This often requires wavered operation -- e.g. Transport Canada waiver, or from whichever rail agency is responsible for the said corridor (FRA, provincial, etc)
Ottawa runs their existing 5-stop O-train diesel-powered LRT, with level boarding, on freight tracks, by using retractable platform edges and nighttime freight operations.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
The UPX could be very easily made into a Cleveland Red Line run by the TTC. The biggest problem is not technical or logistical but political.............Metrolinx refusing to acknowledge that it's little baby is really a white elephant.
Palma
Senior Member
well in 4 mths (June) it will be 2 years since the last provincial election. When the next Metrolinx board meeting is held in June , it will be 2 years away from the next election. That should spur some decisions. We will also be approaching John Tory 2 year mark come the Fall of 2016
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Duck
Guest
I think you're confused - I'm asking under what circumstances do the Toronto subway vehicles routinely get "regauged" (ie, have their entire bogie assemblies swapped out for ones at standard gauge). The Toronto subway tracks use a wider gauge than regular railways, so they're inherently incompatible.
muller877
Senior Member
You have to wait until 6 months before the election before you decide on anything. And then you can blame the other person if you don't get into power (since you don't have to fund anything...only promise it). That politics. Great promises and no action.
The 6 month EA process was to speed up the transit approval process. We now know where the delays (and huge costs) go. Politics.
nfitz
Superstar
I wouldn't say it's regular - just that it's not a big issue when it has happened.
An example would the the Toronto M-1 and Gloucester cars that went to the Halton Radial Museum. Also, those H5s (or was it H6s) that were originally bound for Lagos (and now for the scrap heap), would have been regauged - that didn't seem to be an issue for anyone.
There's many examples of PCC streetcars coming from elsewhere for use in Toronto; and in the 1990s quite a few A-15 PCCs from Toronto that went elsewhere and were regauged.
There's also the example of the 3 CLRVs that were sent to Boston for temporary use there back in 1980, without issue (cars 4027, 4029, and I'm not sure the 3rd one).
And of course the old Peter Witts - how many times has 2894 been moved back and forth from Halton? Or car 327 for that matter.
I can't imagine they are changing out the entire bogie assemblies - I assume it's far simpler for the older vehicles.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Toronto's LRT and subways are slightly odd gauge but it's regular railways aren't and it could buy "off the shelf" subway cars.
UPX is ST and all it needs is electrification and the vehicles to make it happen.
UPX is ST and all it needs is electrification and the vehicles to make it happen.
smallspy
Senior Member
Halton County operates on TTC gauge. The issue is with "foreign" equipment shipped to it, not the Toronto equipment.
Except that it will take way more than just a waiver - and a wave of your hand - to simply "make it so" and run subway cars in place of the UPX equipment.
Perhaps you should start by seeing what is entailed by applying for and being granted those waivers.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
nfitz
Superstar
Gosh, how have I always thought that was the other way around?
Given there seems to be more non-TTC equipment than TTC equipment, then that's a lot of regauging - is that Chicago "L" train regauged then - or is it static?
smallspy
Senior Member
If the items are to stay static - say, the storage boxcars, or the GRR boxcab - then they can stay as standard gauge.
Everything that is to operate gets regauged, and in some cases that's easier than others. In the case of the L train, they had spare PCC trucks, which dropped in perfectly (since the older L cars reused slightly-worn PCC mechanical gear), and in the case of the CPR caboose, they simply plopped it down on a spare set of Brill motor trucks with the motors removed.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I do appreciate that.
It has to get a waiver from Wynne to use the vehicles, extensive electrification, you have to get the platform height right, signage, vehicle yards, scheduling along the corridor etc, etc. That said, the bulk of the work for ST West is already done. The corridor is there, the spur has been built, the tracks are laid, the stations built, and the grade separation is complete.
Most of the heavy work on the line is done. The only big thing missing is electrification. The entire route could be done within 18 months max and wouldn't be very expensive. It's about $3 million/km for electrification on a standard corridor. The main section in this caser would be probably twice that due to the many rail lines that would be electrified all at once. Conversely, the spur would probably only come in at $1 million/km as it's already set up.
My point was simply that the bulk of the work is done and I don't think getting a waiver from Wynne will take much as it's a "win" for her.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
BTW --
There are many current and former CN/CP workers claiming "fat chance", because they say freight still "literally" controls the corridors, even though Metrolinx bought the corridors.
It seems this mentality varies quite a bit from corridor to corridor (e.g. Georgetown corridor versus USRC/LSW) but it seems the perception that freight would be a major roadblock to any waiver that may eventually permit non-FRA trains (whether early or late this century, this RER round or some distant initiative), despite Transport Canada showing willingness to negotiate the conditions on permitting this.
There are many current and former CN/CP workers claiming "fat chance", because they say freight still "literally" controls the corridors, even though Metrolinx bought the corridors.
It seems this mentality varies quite a bit from corridor to corridor (e.g. Georgetown corridor versus USRC/LSW) but it seems the perception that freight would be a major roadblock to any waiver that may eventually permit non-FRA trains (whether early or late this century, this RER round or some distant initiative), despite Transport Canada showing willingness to negotiate the conditions on permitting this.
muller877
Senior Member
And more importantly is the actual safety. There have been way too many train crashes in Europe and elsewhere as of late. Imaging a subway running into a parked freight train? Scary. That's why we have these regulations and I'm quite glad we do.
smallspy
Senior Member
What does Wynne have to do with any of this? The tracks that GO runs on are federally regulated - Transport Canada is the overseeing body, not anyone provincially.
If you want to get to provincial oversight, you need to start separating GO's tracks from everyone else's. And then prevent GO and CN from operating on them. Not a very likely scenario.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.