Great Platform Height Debate: Subway-Style Level Boarding for GO Trains

[reaperexpress]

It seems the discussion is whether 610mm was the right call as opposed to 1220mm. Will GO ever reach a volume where their throughput is limited by the 610mm standard? I would say maybe at a few stations during peak demand. But low floor EMU's should be sufficient for the 'metro-style' routes and it probably was never worth the cost of having to convert an entire network for the benefit of a couple of stations.

The other advantage of 1220mm platorms is that they also provide level boarding for VIA, Up Express and Amtrak.

But regardless, level boarding at 610mm will be a massive improvement over the current 127mm platforms and I cannot wait for the conversion to begin. It's not just the improved boarding efficiency and accessibility at all doors, it's also the ability to stop shorter trains at the portion of the platform where the entrances actually are rather than being locked to a specific position by the 'accessibility coach'. Like at the new Kitchener Central station 6 car trains will need to stop all the way at the east end of the platforms, and the LRT is all the way at the west end.

 

[superelevation]

I get that people want that but from what Metrolinx has put out they don't seem to be wanting to reduce the number of seats on the train to have more doors. Also the platforms aren't going to be at wheel level from what the plans seem to show. Even VIA seems to have given up on wheel height platforms as the new trains they ordered have wheelchair lifts built into them.

Metrolinx really hasn't put anything out about train config, I share most peoples sentiments - low floor isn't optimal, but we have long trains so it's not the end of the world, if capacity becomes an issue that would be a nice problem to have.

 

[ARG1]

Okay........

Why?

Metrolinx has set their future standard as 610mm. No doubt that they've also communicated that to the various companies involved in tendering.

Others have already answered for me, but mainly:

• Better compatibility with VIA (they're moving to high platforms, and having one consistent platform height can only be a good thing).
• Option to use High Floor single level trains in the future that would allow us to increase capacity and decrease idle times.

The 610mm standard only makes sense in the context of compatibility with the existing bilevels, however in the grand scheme of things it really isn't a great standard especially when the goal is to create a frequent RER-style regional rail service. At the very least, we should leave options open so that in the future we wouldn't have to throw out a bunch of perfectly good EMUs if we do want to upgrade, and ordering EMUs with dual height boarding is definitely a good way to do so.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The other advantage of 1220mm platorms is that they also provide level boarding for VIA, Up Express and Amtrak.

I doubt Metrolinx cares about VIA or Amtrack and if they want to have high platforms they can build them themselves. As for the UP Express it only ended up high floor because Metlonx cheaped out and bought in on another transit systems trains because they needed it up and running for the Pan Am games in Toronto. They probably could have found something that would have worked better with the lower platforms if they had more time.

 

[cplchanb]

I doubt Metrolinx cares about VIA or Amtrack and if they want to have high platforms they can build them themselves. As for the UP Express it only ended up high floor because Metlonx cheaped out and bought in on another transit systems trains because they needed it up and running for the Pan Am games in Toronto. They probably could have found something that would have worked better with the lower platforms if they had more time.

thats the thing.... There is so few dmu rolling stock selection that is "certified" for N american use.
Other than the dinosaur RDCs, there is no other dmu available to buy.

I find it quite ironic that ML would not care about via since theyre toughting regional integration, and platform sharing. They had 1 shot in 2 generations to get this right and honestly I dont know what to think
Sure they are harmonizing all platform heights to the same level but is it the correct height in light of whats to come in the next 50 years

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

thats the thing.... There is so few dmu rolling stock selection that is "certified" for N american use.
Other than the dinosaur RDCs, there is no other dmu available to buy.

I find it quite ironic that ML would not care about via since theyre toughting regional integration, and platform sharing. They had 1 shot in 2 generations to get this right and honestly I dont know what to think
Sure they are harmonizing all platform heights to the same level but is it the correct height in light of whats to come in the next 50 years

I think via is solving the problem of not having all platforms at the height of their trains by ordering ones with wheelchair lifts on board. I've seen a few videos on YouTube that mentioned it, one was recee Martin's Press tour of and also a press tour for the britline ones for Florida mentioned it as well.

 

[cplchanb]

I think via is solving the problem of not having all platforms at the height of their trains by ordering ones with wheelchair lifts on board. I've seen a few videos on YouTube that mentioned it, one was recee Martin's Press tour of and also a press tour for the britline ones for Florida mentioned it as well.

That's classic via mentality of just bare minimum effort and not even keep up with what we need for infrastructure and roong stock.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

That's classic via mentality of just bare minimum effort and not even keep up with what we need for infrastructure and roong stock.

No I think it's how do we better spend our money and which is easier for the long run going forward.

 

[reaperexpress]

thats the thing.... There is so few dmu rolling stock selection that is "certified" for N american use.
Other than the dinosaur RDCs, there is no other dmu available to buy.

Incorrect.

 

[smallspy]

Others have already answered for me, but mainly:

• Better compatibility with VIA (they're moving to high platforms, and having one consistent platform height can only be a good thing).
• Option to use High Floor single level trains in the future that would allow us to increase capacity and decrease idle times.

The 610mm standard only makes sense in the context of compatibility with the existing bilevels, however in the grand scheme of things it really isn't a great standard especially when the goal is to create a frequent RER-style regional rail service. At the very least, we should leave options open so that in the future we wouldn't have to throw out a bunch of perfectly good EMUs if we do want to upgrade, and ordering EMUs with dual height boarding is definitely a good way to do so.

And yet, there are no compatibility issues with VIA today, and not likely to be any with the new 610mm standard.

As for the "option to use high floor single level trains", so what? Its a pretty fair to assume that any new stock purchased for the electrification will be compatible with 610mm platforms - likely even having "level boarding with it - so why would you step backwards?

We want to aim for frequent service, yes. The height of the platform is almost irrelevant in that discussion - but what isn't is making it as easy as possible for everyone to disembark and board quickly at stops. And that means many doorways, and as little-to-no step as possible.

Dan

 

[ARG1]

And yet, there are no compatibility issues with VIA today, and not likely to be any with the new 610mm standard.

As for the "option to use high floor single level trains", so what? Its a pretty fair to assume that any new stock purchased for the electrification will be compatible with 610mm platforms - likely even having "level boarding with it - so why would you step backwards?

We want to aim for frequent service, yes. The height of the platform is almost irrelevant in that discussion - but what isn't is making it as easy as possible for everyone to disembark and board quickly at stops. And that means many doorways, and as little-to-no step as possible.

Dan

I feel like you missed the part where I was talking about this in the context of future upgrades. I have no problem raising platforms 610mm, and having full level boarding today. If you go back a few months on some other GO related threads you can see me shredding ssiguy on why raising platforms to high platform today makes absolutely no sense. I'm only advocating that we purchase trains that have high level doors available in the highly probably chance that we're eventually going to have to raise them. Not today, not 10 years from now, but 30-40 years from now.

 

[reaperexpress]

I have set aside my preference for 1220mm platforms, and instead I'm trying to generate support for the 610mm standard that GO has selected:

 

[Voltz]

I have set aside my preference for 1220mm platforms, and instead I'm trying to generate support for the 610mm standard that GO has selected:

They should have began to modify trains for level boarding quite a while ago, since it is going to happen anyway, to avoid having to retrofit all these newly built platforms.

 

[reaperexpress]

They should have began to modify trains for level boarding quite a while ago, since it is going to happen anyway, to avoid having to retrofit all these newly built platforms.

That was originally the plan. This modelling report from 2018 expected level boarding to start imminently. Around that time I did indeed see many station designs with 610mm platforms, but those have since been updated with 127mm platforms for the current construction.

I have no idea what changed. Maybe Bombardier never proposed a satisfactory retrofit product. Maybe they wanted the ONCorr consortium to have the option of choosing a different height (though I can't imagine they would do so).

 

[innsertnamehere]

My bet is that they decided to roll the retrofits into OnCorr work.