got a job in Markham, any suggestions for where to live?

[unimaginative2]

You should definitely test out your commute from any place you're seriously considering. If it turns out to be an hour, then you might as well forget it.

As a side note, if it's going out in the evenings or weekends downtown that you like, and you have a car, it's not really a big deal. If you're not going during rush hour, you can easily get downtown from up in Markham in less than 30 minutes. It might be better for you to live close to work and then "commute" for your off-hour entertainment.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

NYCC is a work in progress and may be phoney and not the kind of 'hood you're looking for, but it sures beats anything N/E of there. From NYCC, Cummer/McNicoll to Warden is a good sleeper route, but the 401 is usually OK east of Yonge.

The Don Mills corridor has a million apartments and condos and would offer acceptably short commutes, but absolutely no urban neighbourhoods.

The Sheppard East zone east of Don Mills also seems renter-friendly and your commute would be easy, but it's suburbia and you may find it bland and inconvenient for your non-work needs.

Unimaginative is right about his 'side note' - if you do not intend to drive for non-work trips (downtown, stores, restaurants, whatever), I severely do not recommend living close to IBM - or anywhere in Markham, really. Commutes to work will be short but the rest of your week will suffer...it is a trade-off.

 

[mastershake]

I'm leaning towards NYCC, it seems like a good compromise. On most days it should be a reasonable drive to markham, or there is the viva or business express bus that leave from finch station.

As a co-op student at IBM i've put up with some pretty horrid commutes up there. I lived on leslie maybe a km north of sheppard and my commute on the bus was usually around 1.5 hours each way (walk to the subway, one stop east, transfer to sheppard east bus, wait at warden for up to 40 minutes for a markham bound bus). This was before viva.

I don't mind driving to work but on the weekends and evenings i would prefer not to drive. I like to have a few drinks now and then and it is a downer to have to find a designated driver and worry about parking. I like being close to the gym, it's one less excuse not to go. I'd like to be able to grab some milk or bread without driving several minutes away to a store surrounded by a huge parking lot full of incompetent drivers. As an aside, people in Markham and Scarborough are the worst drivers I have ever seen, no one signals or checks their blind spots, and drivers are completely unaware of the pedestrian's right of way.

 

[Chuck]

A lot depends on how you'll be getting to work. If you're leaning towards NYCC and would be taking transit, you may as well move 3 subway stops south to Yonge and Eglinton. For an extra 8 minutes on the subway in each direction, you get to live in a much better area. If you're driving on the other hand, the difference between Eglinton and NYCC is huge!

I once had a summer job for a company located at Leslie and 7. It wasn't that bad because I grew up in the area and lived at home for the summer. When I graduated from University, I was offered a few jobs, but my first choice was the one located downtown.

If you'll be living in Markham/Willowdale, I would recommend renting something near Yonge and Steeles. Driving to work shouldn't be that hard, plus you get the best of both worlds for transit - easy access to the subway by TTC, and easy access to work by VIVA. You would also pay no double fare regardless of where you're going. Centrepoint Mall has lots of amenities such as a Loblaws as well.

 

[BuildTO]

Carpooling is very difficult at that company because frequent overtime and flex hours make it extremely unlikely that two employees would share the same schedule even if they lived near each other.

If flex hours are an option and you can start and end outside of rush hours, the commuting problem might be avoided.

I worked at a software company at Mississauga Rd./401, and would arrive at work at 7 AM, before the morning chaos on the 401 begins. It saved my sanity.

 

[taal]

I am currently on an internship with said company ...
A few tidbits.

1) I live in NYCC.
2) If you think it's hard to get there by bus you are cleary very confused, from NYCC that is.
3) There is a YRT bus (the 300) which is an express bus ($3). It leaves from Finch station and goes up Yonge to the 407 and takes it to Leslie. Goes around that business area and across HI-way 7 (takes 30min) .. It's actually very hard to beet by car ... unless you take the 407 and pay the massive rates. The great thing about this bus is it is very acurate i.e. leaves every 15min from 7:30 to 9:30 and from 3:30 to 7 .. or something along those lines.

4) Regarding areas to live in ... no where in Markham. Downtown Markham is so far off in the future from being complete ... if it even works ...

I know a few people who work there and live at Yonge and Eglinton - takes them about 1hour each way.

 

[Admiral Beez]

You got a job in Markham?

Live in Markham.

N'ah, you've got to live where you like it, as jobs come and go. Look at me, I work in Kitchener and live in Cabbagetown. I would never leave the city again (after 3 years in Fredericton) and could never move to Kitchener. It's all about negotiating your work day, when you start and when you leave, plus working from home when possible. Thus, I go to the library, get my books on CD, and set my cruise control for 125 kph and drive from my front door to the office in about 90 minutes. If I leave the office before 4pm, I can usually beat traffic, and be at my front door by 5:30pm.

 

[Markham]

The bottom line to all this is individual preference. Markham is a great city (or is it town?) but its geared towards the "family/kids" lifestyle. But there are still some pockets of good hangouts for single people. If you like the club lifestyle then get something in the downtown core. I lived in the NYCC area and moved to Markham east which is now developing at a very quick rate. Was it a big difference? ...hell yeah! But now we have a baby and owning a house with lotsa space is great. My commute is longer now cuz I work downtown but its somewhat comfortable taking the GO everyday (but there are other issues towards GO service-won't go into that here! hah).

But since you are just coming out of school, you have lotsa time to experiment and take more risks. And renting gives you more flexibility. If you don't like the stress of driving/busing far distances then rent in Markham. If you don't mind the commute rent at the NYCC. I think downtown is to far and their is no viable bus service available if your car breaks down.

 

[Chuck]

If you don't mind the commute rent at the NYCC. I think downtown is to far and their is no viable bus service available if your car breaks down.

I slightly disagree with that. The majority of the trip time by far will consist of waiting for a YRT bus, sitting in traffic, then walking to your office. This alone could take an hour, while the difference between downtown and NYCC is a 15 minute ride on the subway.

If you want the lifestyle, do it right and live downtown. An extra 15 stress free minutes on the subway is well worth coming home to a neighbourhood that you like - if you actually do want to live downtown which you may not.

 

[Markham]

I slightly disagree with that. The majority of the trip time by far will consist of waiting for a YRT bus, sitting in traffic, then walking to your office. This alone could take an hour, while the difference between downtown and NYCC is a 15 minute ride on the subway.

If you want the lifestyle, do it right and live downtown. An extra 15 stress free minutes on the subway is well worth coming home to a neighbourhood that you like - if you actually do want to live downtown which you may not.

If I had a choice, the flexiblity of renting any place I wanted and worked in Markham I would rent up north. An additional 15-20 mins commute time from downtown to Markham may sound short but when you add that to the total commute time it would be horrible. I would rather rent in NYCC which is half way b/w downtown and Markham. So u still have the flexibility to take the subway downtown during off work hours.

I live in Markham and I love it. It is a great place to raise a family. I am no longer in the club/bar scene and having all the living space avaialble/fresh air is awesome. I work downtown tho (unfortunately transit is geared towards Markham to Downtown in the morning/not the other way around). For me I get the best of both worldd...the downtown work/life style and I go home in nice comfy house with no crowds.

 

[lead82]

I find this thread quite interesting. I have done an internship for the aforementioned company back in 2005 and am now working full time. If you haven't noticed most software companies are out in Markham with a handful in Mississauga. They move to the burbs because that's where most of their employees live. This is especially the case for this company. Look at the demographics of the employees and that will tell you why the company moved to that particular suburb.

Another issue is cheaper land. Toronto makes the mistake of over-taxing businesses and especially large companies. As such they move their offices outside of the city centre.

Anyways, back on topic. I now work for the same company at the head office on Steeles and live in North York Centre at Yonge/Finch. The commute is a breeze. Back when I was a student, I lived at home in Thornhill (Yonge/Clark) area. The commute from there to Warden/7 was 20 minutes each way on a lovely tree lined street which rarely had any traffic on it.

Now from Yonge and Finch to Steeles/Pharmacy it's a short 15 minute commute there and 20 back, also on a lovely scenic drive along Finch E.

I greatly enjoy the NYCC neighbourhood. Sure it's in transition from boring to something much better. It's a close 20 min subway ride to downtown, and about the same amount to work. There are plenty of amenities nearby and the neighbourhood is growing tremendously as it is a great location transportation wise in the GTA. It is easy to get to anywhere from NYCC by TTC or by car.

What you failed to mention mastershake is that the beauty of working for the said company is that you can work from home often or work wherever you like as long as it has internet access. I know many some young people who lived downtown (Spadina/Bloor, Danforth/Coxwell) and drove to work. It was 30mins if you arrive for 10am.

I have the wonderful ability to work out of the mobility centre downtown (Bloor/Yonge) or I can work from the office. It's a short express bus ride from Finch or a slightly shorter drive. When I want to work downtown, I can and frequently do. It's a short subway ride.

If I were you I would live in a neighbourhood that you enjoy. You work for a great company with some of the most flexible work environment. Take advantage of it. My manager lives in Milton and commutes occasionally to Markham. The rest of the time he works from home so commute time is zero.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Glen]

They move to the burbs because that's where most of their employees live. This is especially the case for this company. Look at the demographics of the employees and that will tell you why the company moved to that particular suburb.

Another issue is cheaper land. Toronto makes the mistake of over-taxing businesses and especially large companies. As such they move their offices outside of the city centre.

They moved out the 416 area because taxes. Commercial / industrial land is more expensive, on average, in the 905 area.

Oracle moved to out of Toronto because the benefits were not worth the cost. Oracle pays less in Mississauga, lease + taxes, for a larger space than what they paid in property taxes alone compared to when they were in the Scotia Tower.

 

[lead82]

I would say on average rents in Toronto are a lot more expensive than in the 905 area. A lot of those cities give tax breaks for companies moving to the 905, and as such it makes is cheaper to buy land since taxes are less. I agree with you that you do get more land in the 905, so in essence it becomes cheaper to operate because land is a one time cost, while rent and taxes hits the corporate budgets all the time.

Its sad that Toronto doesn't cut corporate taxes and encourage more jobs downtown or in the city. Have residences in Toronto is nice but if they are all commuting to work in the 905 it creates huge traffic that can not be served by transit since Toronto transit is focused on downtown and Union station in particular.

 

[Conrad Black]

Toronto is cutting taxes on commercial but its going to take a while. Originally the plan was to equalize commercial taxes with 905 within 15 years which was, I think, was then reduced to 10 years. Since its been a couple of years now they must be in the 8 year range by now. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Glen]

I would say on average rents in Toronto are a lot more expensive than in the 905 area.

It is the other way around. Net rents in Toronto are cheaper (for comparable areas). In the TEDCO report showed that net rents for the 401/404 area for office space was $12 per foot. Compared to $17 per foot in Mississauga airport corporate centre. Which is why it concluded ............

In consultation with TEDCO, together with the City
Economic Development Office and City Planning Division,
five development scenarios — two office scenarios and three
industrial scenarios — were developed:
• A pure office development on Consumers Road in the
City of Toronto in the Don Valley Parkway corridor;
• A pure office development in the Airport Corporate
Centre in the City of Mississauga;
• A prestige industrial development — defined as a
building that has a high proportion (40%) of office
space within the facility — in the Keele and Sheppard
area in the City of Toronto, at the southern end of the
Dufferin Keele North Employment District;
• A standard industrial development in the Weston
Both standard industrial building scenarios are for a 7,000 m2
(75,000 sq.ft.) facility at 40% coverage with 10% accessory
office space to a mid-range quality of finish.

2. In the City of Toronto, Most New Development in the
Districts Is Not Economically Competitive
The pro forma analysis suggests that most new development
in the Employment Districts would not be economically
competitive from the perspective of the private landowner or
investor. In summary:• For the scenarios tested, the analysis indicates a shortfall
of revenues between the net present value of the cost of
developing new buildings and their leased-up investment
value, for both the pure office and industrial
scenarios examined.