GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[kalis0490]

It has been discussed a bit before, but considering Metrolinx already owns the tracks to Kitchener, and is planning hourly service, buying the tracks that continue on to London, upgrading to a reasonable speed, and running a frequent service to London is probably better done by Metrolinx. They have the resources to upgrade and maintain the track, and the London to Toronto distance is not unreasonable to do as a regional rail style service once the tracks speeds are improved. It will also function well as a Kitchener to London service and provide commuter service for those in and near communities like Stratford that may coute to London or Kitchener.

The gov did allocate 160M for London go in 2022? but I believe that didn't go anywhere. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-go-transit-metrolinx-final-report-1.7078430)

Technically speaking the GO pilot wasn't cancelled due to low ridership but due to construction at London station.

Baden-new Hamburg was the originally planned terminus of the Kitchener line before the expansion of the Shirley yard (https://www.therecord.com/news/wate...cle_71ed8a59-5592-5065-a4c5-45d50eff11ff.html) and there are many new subdivisions/industrial projects in the area which have used the potential for GO service in their planning reports.


Stratford-Kitchener is easier, because the tracks are (slightly) less degraded and because there's a yard at Stratford. Its already faster than driving rn

London- Stratford has very degraded track + bridge replacement at St Marys,.

If London-Kitchener can be upgraded to hourly service taking an hour it would be VERY popular due to the huge student influx (UWO, UW, WLU, UG, UT etc). London and Kitchener are also not small towns as both are ~700K rn.

 

[ShonTron]

The gov did allocate 160M for London go in 2022? but I believe that didn't go anywhere. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-go-transit-metrolinx-final-report-1.7078430)

Technically speaking the GO pilot wasn't cancelled due to low ridership but due to construction at London station.

Baden-new Hamburg was the originally planned terminus of the Kitchener line before the expansion of the Shirley yard (https://www.therecord.com/news/wate...cle_71ed8a59-5592-5065-a4c5-45d50eff11ff.html) and there are many new subdivisions/industrial projects in the area which have used the potential for GO service in their planning reports.


Stratford-Kitchener is easier, because the tracks are (slightly less degraded) and because there's a yard at Stratford. Its already faster than driving rn


London- Stratford has very degraded track + bridge replacement at St Marys,.

If London-Kitchener can be upgraded to hourly service taking an hour it would be VERY popular due to the huge student influx (UWO, UW, WLU, UG, UT etc)

London-Stratford-Kitchener should be a separate service and shouldn't be 10-car bilevel trains. We really need a separate fleet and a service model for provincial services like Kitchener/Stratford/London, or even Toronto-Oshawa-Cobourg-Belleville-Kingston-Brockville-Ottawa if ALTO takes over the intercity market there. Trains with the speeds to match VIA services (up to 160 km/h) and with more comfortable seating than GO, but be a "turn up, by a ticket, and ride" service with no reserved seating or one car with reserved seating.

Toronto-Kitchener-London is a very long line for 10-car trains with minimal amenities; the capacity per train isn't needed for the western section, where you'll want at least a few round trips per day.

 

[reaperexpress]

The gov did allocate 160M for London go in 2022? but I believe that didn't go anywhere. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-go-transit-metrolinx-final-report-1.7078430)

They promised 160M but they never actually allocated it. Once they were elected they conveniently forgot about that promise.

Technically speaking the GO pilot wasn't cancelled due to low ridership but due to construction at London station.

Most of the ridership was from Stratford and the train crews were based in Kitchener anyway. They could have continued the Stratford-Toronto service if they wanted. They also could have introduced a London-Kitchener GO bus if they wanted. But they already won the election so there was no longer any point in spending money on services west of Kitchener.

If London-Kitchener can be upgraded to hourly service taking an hour it would be VERY popular due to the huge student influx (UWO, UW, WLU, UG, UT etc). London and Kitchener are also not small towns as both are ~700K rn.

Indeed, the London-Kitchener-Guelph corridor has very solid ridership potential if the tracks are upgraded to 160 km/h standards and they build the Kitchener Central station with a direct connection to the LRT, and more intercity/regional bus platforms than the current station.

London-Stratford-Kitchener should be a separate service and shouldn't be 10-car bilevel trains. We really need a separate fleet and a service model for provincial services like Kitchener/Stratford/London, or even Toronto-Oshawa-Cobourg-Belleville-Kingston-Brockville-Ottawa if ALTO takes over the intercity market there. Trains with the speeds to match VIA services (up to 160 km/h) and with more comfortable seating than GO, but be a "turn up, by a ticket, and ride" service with no reserved seating or one car with reserved seating.

Toronto-Kitchener-London is a very long line for 10-car trains with minimal amenities; the capacity per train isn't needed for the western section, where you'll want at least a few round trips per day.

It's true that London-Kitchener doesn't need 10-car trains, but that doesn't mean London-Stratford passengers should need to transfer in Kitchener just to get to Guelph, Brampton or the airport. The hourly trains from Kitchener to Toronto should ideally be running express anyway, so they can use smaller 6-car (or even 4-car) BiLevel sets that make minimal stops from Mount Pleasant to Toronto where there is overlapping local service.

I think the existing GO fleet is already well-suited for regional-express GO service, it's just a matter of retrofitting interiors have an airline-style seating layout and traytables. The trains can already reach 150 km/h and the BiLevel layout is good for providing lots of seating capacity on longer-distance trips. Eventually we'd want the next generation to reach 160 km/h, but in the meantime we will have lots of BiLevel coaches and diesel locomotives to spare as they are (hopefully) replaced by EMUs on local services.

Extending the hourly 6-car BiLevel service beyond Kitchener to London would provide more capacity than technically required, but having one unified Intercity-style GO service all the way along the corridor would produce a much more substantial shift in travel patterns than just a little shuttle from London to Kitchener (and presumably Guelph).

 

[tsm1072]

Its not owned by Metrolinx, they bought rights to build a second track. So technically they own half the corridor.

I should have clarified that I meant the Georgetown to Kitchener segment, which I believe is Metrolinx owned. Am I mistaken in thinking that?

 

[Northern Light]

I should have clarified that I meant the Georgetown to Kitchener segment, which I believe is Metrolinx owned. Am I mistaken in thinking that?

You are correct that Mx owns the westerly segment as well as Bramalea to Union.

They do not yet own the intervening section roughly Bramalea to Georgetown.

That is what they are acquiring. *

(They are acquiring a portion of the corridor in that segment, in which they will be able to lay 2 dedicated tracks for GO, CN would retain ownership of any other track (likely 2).

 

[Metroscapes]

I'd encourage anyone unfamiliar with rail ownership structure to refer to the RAC Canadian Rail Atlas.

 

[dowlingm]

Oct. 25: Milton Line extra train service
On Saturday, Oct. 25, to help you cheer on the Toronto Blue Jays, we’ve arranged extra GO train service to get you to the game and home safely:

• A 4:30 p.m. train departing Milton GO, making all stops to Union Station arriving at 5:33 p.m.
• A 12:30 a.m. train departing Union Station, making all stops to Milton GO arriving at 1:30 a.m.

Remember to check your schedules.
Let’s GO Blue Jays!

GO Tracker says the Milton train has departed, currently running about 5” behind at Lisgar.

 

[Yahe]

Currently on one of the new extra rush hour train service on the Lakeshore East and the train is relatively empty compared to the usual rush hour trains. I would assume it’ll take some time until riders adjust to the new service but it is nice to have 10 minute service on the line.

 

[rdaner]

Didn’t Confederation GO open today transforming travel in Niagara?!

 

[reaperexpress]

Didn’t Confederation GO open today transforming travel in Niagara?!

Yes it opened today.
No it doesn't make much difference to travel in the Niagara peninsula since it's still faster to take a bus or drive to Burlington and board the train there.

 

[PShells]

I dropped my wife off at Unionville GO to use the "new" 5.37pm southbound train to Union. This counter peak 6-car train service is definitely creating induced demand vs. the bus service it replaced.

I suppose another benefit is crew efficiency given this southbound train no longer sits at Unionville for hour(s) on platform 2 as the "new as of Oct 27" 4:50pm northbound train out of Union arrives at 5:31pm before quickly returning for its southbound trip six minutes later.

 

[reaperexpress]

I dropped my wife off at Unionville GO to use the "new" 5.37pm southbound train to Union. This counter peak 6-car train service is definitely creating induced demand vs. the bus service it replaced.

I suppose another benefit is crew efficiency given this southbound train no longer sits at Unionville for hour(s) on platform 2 as the "new as of Oct 27" 4:50pm northbound train out of Union arrives at 5:31pm before quickly returning for its southbound trip six minutes later.

Are you sure it's the same train? Six minutes is extremely short for a single- tracked line where delays will cascade if a train departs late. Looking at the timetable my guess was that the 16:13 northbound arrival still becomes the 17:37 southbound departure (sitting on the second platform), and the 17:31 arrival sits overnight (on the third platform) and runs the 07:59 southbound departure.

I didn't think Unionville had layover facilities, but if the Unionville short-turn trips started from Union, why wouldn't they run in-service counter-peak?

 

[PShells]

Are you sure it's the same train? Six minutes is extremely short for a single- tracked line where delays will cascade if a train departs late. Looking at the timetable my guess was that the 16:13 northbound arrival still becomes the 17:37 southbound departure (sitting on the second platform), and the 17:31 arrival sits overnight (on the third platform) and runs the 07:59 southbound departure.

I didn't think Unionville had layover facilities, but if the Unionville short-turn trips started from Union, why wouldn't they run in-service counter-peak?

The layover facility at Unionville GO has not been built yet, although I have seen A&B Rail work trucks parked in the area north of the station where its planned.

The 5:37pm train has been sitting on platform 2 when I pass it on my commute home around 4:30pm each day the last two months.

Yesterday, I did not see a train parked when I arrived at the station around 5:25pm yesterday. I heard a train arrive around 5:30pm but I did not see where it came from when I looked up. I assumed it was the northbound trip as I don't know where else this train could have been stored....because as you said I didn't think there was a place to store a train aside from platforms 1 and 2 since platform 3 is the most heavily used.

 

[PShells]

I saw the 4:50pm 6-car northbound train to Unionville leave Union today as I waited for my 5:00pm 12-car northbound train that went further north. The 5pm train sat on the western edge of the same platform waiting for the smaller train to depart.

I just passed a southbound 6-car train at 5:39pm at Unionville GO, so I’m now 100% convinced it’s the same train doing the quick return on the southbound trip.

I’m chuckling at how tight these two trains are given they wait on the same platform at Union, tailgate each other north and then one quickly u-turns south.

 

[reaperexpress]

I saw the 4:50pm 6-car northbound train to Unionville leave Union today as I waited for my 5:00pm 12-car northbound train that went further north. The 5pm train sat on the western edge of the same platform waiting for the smaller train to depart.

I just passed a southbound 6-car train at 5:39pm at Unionville GO, so I’m now 100% convinced it’s the same train doing the quick return on the southbound trip.

I’m chuckling at how tight these two trains are given they wait on the same platform at Union, tailgate each other north and then one quickly u-turns south.

Where does the 16:13 Unionville arrival go after it drops off passengers?