GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[ownthesky]

It is a good plan, I will give it that. But it will unquestionably make James (and by extension, Upper James) a matter of discussion for transit improvement. The street is already a key auto corridor, for better or worse, and a significant number of bus routes already use James for getting to MacNab Terminal and Hunter St GO. I would say shut it down to cars and make it one transit-only lane in each direction (with wider sidewalks and other pedestrian improvements), but realistically speaking, It's going to bring the A-Line into the fold. You won't be able to cram all downtown buses, plus cars and trucks, onto James without some infrastructure. Making West Harbour the hub is still the right move, but adding the LRT into the fold will push James to the limit.

Without diverting discussion too much, what to do on James street is a difficult question unto itself, but it affects regional travel to and from Hamilton. And I can say that I'm not the only one who has concerns about whether we can implement any sort of A-Line, so this is not just pure speculation: Surface RT is not a very practical option. Transit-only lanes will compromise automobiles, even if it's only on James for all the feeder routes. But, if you grade-separate to avoid that (or even stomach the lane reduction and just use LRT for trunk capacity), you'd have to go all-in and climb the escarpment to intercept those mountain routes before they go down the Jolley Cut. So it's either a half-measure in the core that will see major pushback, or an extremely expensive option we go all-in on. Or, of course, do nothing- but as I've said, that won't do for very long.

The secret sauce for the city's plan is that most of the buses will actually enter West Harbour from the West by taking Bay St via Cannon, avoiding the narrowest section of James that, as you point out, will otherwise require a massive infrastructure overhaul. In this way, only the Southbound bus traffic will need to be accommodated through the historic Art Crawl chokepoint.

 

[Allandale25]

Provincial guidelines needed before Durham can raise cash for new GO stations, says region

Durham region is asking Queen's Park for a crucial go-ahead as the Bowmanville GO train extension continues. This comes nearly two years after the province p

www.durhamradionews.com

On Wednesday, officials warned that revenue could be on the line.

“In Clarington, we have developers that might be impacted by this, that are in front of the [Ontario Land Tribunal],” said Clarington Mayor Adrian Foster. “If the OLT gets to this before the province gets to this, there could be a significant impact on the fees that are collected to provide those stations.”

“We had a promise that this was going to be done prior to the end of 2024,” he added. “We haven’t seen it. We need to light a fire under the appropriate individuals to get those [regulations] passed, because the potential financial impact to Durham Region – if this does not happen fast enough – is significant.”

“The province needs to understand that there is an urgency to this,” added Oshawa Mayor Dan Carter.

 

[WB62]

Surprised nobody’s talked about it yet.

Today is the anniversary of GO Trebuchet. GO Trebuchet was proposed on the 1st of April, 1400AD by the Government of Ontario to provide safe and fast transit service across the General Toronto Area using Ontario-designed people-launching trebuchet's.

This line was never built.

 

[reaperexpress]

Surprised nobody’s talked about it yet.

Today is the anniversary of GO Trebuchet. GO Trebuchet was proposed on the 1st of April, 1400AD by the Government of Ontario to provide safe and fast transit service across the General Toronto Area using Ontario-designed people-launching trebuchet's.

This line was never built.

View attachment 640872

Although the Iroquian government may have first proposed the trebuchet in 1400, it wasn't until the 1700s that the Crown established the Urban Trebuchet Development Corporation

 

[Sauga89]

Although the Iroquian residents may have first proposed the trebuchet in 1400, it wasn't until the 1700s that the Crown established the Urban Trebuchet Development Corporation

The Trebuchet Development Corporation approved the plans for the Trebuchet after 10 years of exhaustive studies, despite opposition over the 5 trees which would have to be cut down to build the Trebuchet. However, the Corporation's repeated studies had consumed all of the funds allocated for the Trebuchet, and so construction was deferred until new funding could be secured.

 

[crs1026]

An early implementation of the Trebuchet technology was attempted in Scarborough, but after several decades of useful service, it reached end of life.... and after an extensive and circuitous debate by the Crown and numerous court jesters, the machinery eventually wore out and was not replaced.
The three occupants of its final unsuccessful projection all survived, without injury.

- Paul

 

[Bojaxs]

I rode the Stouffville line today from Kennedy to Unionville. Some thoughts;

The train was horribly slow the entire time. Averaging 45-50km/h. What's the reason for this?

The noise walls are horrendous. Every time I ride this line they seem to get more covered in graffiti. The walls ruin the view while looking out the window and block out the sun if you're riding on the lower level of the coaches. I just wonder why MX had to go through the trouble of installing these noise walls on the Stouffville line, but no such walls exist on the LSW line. Particularly through Mississauga where people's backyards back against the tracks? On the LSW line, MX simply used black, chainmail fences to divide people's properties from the tracks.

There is work going on at Finch Ave. Couldn't tell if it was for the RER station or grade separation.

Sometimes I wonder if my complaints about the other lines comes form the fact that I'm spoilt from being a regular LSW rider. But in all honesty, I just want to see all the other lines brought up to par with the Lakeshore lines.

Once at Unionville, I rode the GO bus back to Oakville. I'm 38 years old, and every time I get on a GO bus I'm always made to feel like one of the oldest riders. There's a lot of young people that rely on the GO buses. Lots of students.

 

[Bordercollie]

I rode the Stouffville line today from Kennedy to Unionville. Some thoughts;

The train was horribly slow the entire time. Averaging 45-50km/h. What's the reason for this?

The noise walls are horrendous. Every time I ride this line they seem to get more covered in graffiti. The walls ruin the view while looking out the window and block out the sun if you're riding on the lower level of the coaches. I just wonder why MX had to go through the trouble of installing these noise walls on the Stouffville line, but no such walls exist on the LSW line. Particularly through Mississauga where people's backyards back against the tracks? On the LSW line, MX simply used black, chainmail fences to divide people's properties from the tracks.

There is work going on at Finch Ave. Couldn't tell if it was for the RER station or grade separation.

Sometimes I wonder if my complaints about the other lines comes form the fact that I'm spoilt from being a regular LSW rider. But in all honesty, I just want to see all the other lines brought up to par with the Lakeshore lines.

Once at Unionville, I rode the GO bus back to Oakville. I'm 38 years old, and every time I get on a GO bus I'm always made to feel like one of the oldest riders. There's a lot of young people that rely on the GO buses. Lots of students.

The noise walls are there to dampen the noise from the houses. When you go from 6 trains a day in each direction to every 15 minutes people are going to notice the noise more.

 

[crs1026]

I rode the Stouffville line today from Kennedy to Unionville. Some thoughts;

The train was horribly slow the entire time. Averaging 45-50km/h. What's the reason for this?

The noise walls are horrendous. Every time I ride this line they seem to get more covered in graffiti. The walls ruin the view while looking out the window and block out the sun if you're riding on the lower level of the coaches. I just wonder why MX had to go through the trouble of installing these noise walls on the Stouffville line, but no such walls exist on the LSW line. Particularly through Mississauga where people's backyards back against the tracks? On the LSW line, MX simply used black, chainmail fences to divide people's properties from the tracks.

There is work going on at Finch Ave. Couldn't tell if it was for the RER station or grade separation.

Sometimes I wonder if my complaints about the other lines comes form the fact that I'm spoilt from being a regular LSW rider. But in all honesty, I just want to see all the other lines brought up to par with the Lakeshore lines.

Welcome to RER !

You are indeed accustomed to what has always been a heavy main line, rather than a sleepy branch line,

The Stouffville line is about the slowest on the system, zone speed from Scarborough to just north of Agincourt is only 40 mph - has not been higher in the last 20 years. North of that the zone speed is 50 mph. I have seen no indication that there is a plan to raise speeds when construction ends someday. As there is no express GO or VIA service on this line, you won’t see 60 mph + ever happening.

The sound walls are a good thing, but yes the charm of riding along and looking into all the backyards is gone. It's pretty close to riding on a subway these days. We have discussed how the walls might be softened and graffitti discouraged, but so far ML has not taken me up on my offer of cuttings from the indestructible ivy in my garden that I can't kill.

- Paul

 

[bearcat]

You are indeed accustomed to what has always been a heavy main line, rather than a sleepy branch line,

The Stouffville line is about the slowest on the system, zone speed from Scarborough to just north of Agincourt is only 40 mph - has not been higher in the last 20 years. North of that the zone speed is 50 mph. I have seen no indication that there is a plan to raise speeds when construction ends someday. As there is no express GO or VIA service on this line, you won’t see 60 mph + ever happening.

The sound walls are a good thing, but yes the charm of riding along and looking into all the backyards is gone. It's pretty close to riding on a subway these days. We have discussed how the walls might be softened and graffitti discouraged, but so far ML has not taken me up on my offer of cuttings from the indestructible ivy in my garden that I can't kill.

- Paul

The line appear pretty straight with few grade crossings. It will also have at least one direction of new rails as it's getting double tracked. What exactly is preventing higher speeds?

Does it cost that much extra to make the line capable of higher speeds?

 

[Allandale25]

From the news release about West Harbour's track competition:

"The Lakeshore West schedule will be adjusted in the coming weeks, once testing of the new track is complete."

Edit: a BlueSky post by Joey Coleman, a reporter:

"In response to my question when the new schedules will begin, Metrolinx says the switch activation is ahead of schedule, therefore timelines moved up. New schedules "within a few weeks""

Complete news release:

NEWS RELEASE Ontario Completes Construction on West Harbour GO Station​ Station upgrades will save riders 15 minutes per roundtrip, with more GO options between Toronto, Hamilton and Niagara April 09, 2025 Ministry of Transportation

HAMILTON — As part of its plan to deliver faster and more reliable GO service across the Greater Golden Horseshoe, the Ontario government has completed construction at West Harbour GO Station, including a recent upgrade that will save more than 250,000 commuters in Niagara Falls and St. Catharines roughly 15 minutes per roundtrip. “As we work to expand GO Service across the region, the completion of West Harbour Station means faster, more convenient and more frequent GO train options with four times as many trips for commuters travelling between Hamilton and Niagara Falls,” said Prabmeet Sarkaria, Minister of Transportation. “Our government is making historic investments to expand transit and build for the future, while creating good paying jobs that protect Ontario workers during this time of economic uncertainty.” West Harbour GO Station previously had a dead-end track that required trains to back into and out of the station. With the station now connected to the main Lakeshore West rail line, St. Catharines and Niagara Falls customers can expect faster service in and out of West Harbour GO. In addition, all trains travelling to and from Niagara Falls, including weekend and off-peak trips, will now stop at West Harbour GO Station, significantly improving convenience and travel options between the Niagara Region and Hamilton. The completed work on the West Harbour track will also facilitate GO rail service to the future Confederation GO Station in east Hamilton, further connecting GO rail to bus services and Hamilton Street Railway services and making life more convenient for commuters in Hamilton and for those travelling to Niagara Falls. The Lakeshore West schedule will be adjusted in the coming weeks, once testing of the new track is complete.

Quick Facts​ The GO Transit service area, which includes the Greater Toronto Hamilton Area, Kitchener-Waterloo, Barrie and Niagara, is expected to grow to 15 million people by 2051. The Lakeshore West Line connects Exhibition Place in Toronto to Niagara Falls, one of Canada’s top tourist destinations. Beginning later this spring, every Niagara- and Toronto-bound train will stop at West Harbour GO, seven days a week. In 2024, Ontario announced the largest GO Transit service expansion in more than a decade, adding more than 300 weekly train trips to the GO rail network.

 

[Bojaxs]

The Stouffville line is about the slowest on the system, zone speed from Scarborough to just north of Agincourt is only 40 mph - has not been higher in the last 20 years. North of that the zone speed is 50 mph. I have seen no indication that there is a plan to raise speeds when construction ends someday. As there is no express GO or VIA service on this line, you won’t see 60 mph + ever happening.

That is incredibly disappointing.

 

[smallspy]

The line appear pretty straight with few grade crossings. It will also have at least one direction of new rails as it's getting double tracked. What exactly is preventing higher speeds?

Does it cost that much extra to make the line capable of higher speeds?

The sheer number of grade crossings limits the maximum speed, although the impending removal of most of them over the next several years will help with that.

And despite appearances, the track geometry in many places will limit the maximum speeds capable. For instance, the curves at Lawrence are only capable of a maximum of 60 or 65mph due to the lack of tangent track between them. The curves at Sheppard will have a similar restriction, although that one is less important as it is immediately south of the platforms of Agincourt Station.

Dan

 

[bearcat]

The sheer number of grade crossings limits the maximum speed, although the impending removal of most of them over the next several years will help with that.

And despite appearances, the track geometry in many places will limit the maximum speeds capable. For instance, the curves at Lawrence are only capable of a maximum of 60 or 65mph due to the lack of tangent track between them. The curves at Sheppard will have a similar restriction, although that one is less important as it is immediately south of the platforms of Agincourt Station.

Dan

Thanks for the detailed response.

I guess I didn't realize how many grade crossings there are, but as you said they are being removed. And with current track geometry sounds like 65 mph might be possible as you said.

I guess I was more questioning why if there is so much work being done on the line, including double tracking and grade crossings removal, would the goal not be to this work in such a way with the goal of raising the speed to let's say 65?

I was just kind of shocked and upset by the statement from @crs1026 that "60 mph + will never happen" and even when "construction ends some day" there is no goal to raise the speed.

 

[Northern Light]

As per this CBC story:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/go-train-service-1.7505758

West Harbour will see 32 additional train trips from GO call each week beginning in May.

This means all Niagara bound trains will stop at West Harbour, weekdays and weekends.

This does not appear to include any additional service to Niagara.

Which I think would be a mistake. They desperately need to add an additional trip each way, on weekends, for sure, if not daily.