GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[reaperexpress]

This incident highlights serious deficiencies within the GO train network and exposes a troubling lack of transparency within MX. PTC would address many of these issues, yet very little progress has been made in implementing it. Worse still, rather than openly acknowledging the severity of the incident, it was downplayed and essentially concealed from the public. Furthermore, one of the employees on the train that passed the stop signal without authority had a known medical condition that may have interfered with his ability to operate—yet he was still allowed to continue in such a critical role. This raises serious concerns about their hiring practices and ability to retain qualified staff. The fact that he was allowed to remain on duty even after the issue became apparent—prior to this incident—can almost certainly be attributed to chronic understaffing and a growing exodus of experienced personnel driven by low morale, high stress levels, and overall dissatisfaction with the company and agency.

Without immediate action to modernize safety systems, enforce stricter operational standards, and commit to greater transparency, we may not be as fortunate next time.

PTC is the United States' system for providing Automatic Train Protection (ATP). Metrolinx is not implementing it because they are implementing ETCS, which is the European ATP standard.

The key is that OnExpress needs to be able to implement standard ETCS without modifying it to conform to a bunch of arbitrary conditions demanded by Metrolinx and/or Transport Canada.

 

[crs1026]

Ive always thought blowing past a stop signal is an immediate firing right? like if a bus blew a red light?

That’s a gross oversimplification. Many factors affect how much disciplinary action, if any, is taken.

We haven’t heard all sides of the story - that’s what investigations are for. It’s a serious situation, but we should not rush to judgement.

The bigger point is, some form of ATP, be it PTC or ETCS or equivalent would have made a big difference in this instance.

- Paul

 

[Bordercollie]

PTC is the United States' system for providing Automatic Train Protection (ATP). Metrolinx is not implementing it because they are implementing ETCS, which is the European ATP standard.

The key is that OnExpress needs to be able to implement standard ETCS without modifying it to conform to a bunch of arbitrary conditions demanded by Metrolinx and/or Transport Canada.

So the maple leaf and freight locomotives won't be in the same system? Makes no sense..

 

[smallspy]

Ive always thought blowing past a stop signal is an immediate firing right? like if a bus blew a red light?

It depends on the situation.

There have been a number of occasions where a signal dropped immediately in front of a train as it was proceeding at speed. How is that the operator's fault?

Dan

 

[generalcanada]

That’s a gross oversimplification. Many factors affect how much disciplinary action, if any, is taken.

We haven’t heard all sides of the story - that’s what investigations are for. It’s a serious situation, but we should not rush to judgement.

The bigger point is, some form of ATP, be it PTC or ETCS or equivalent would have made a big difference in this instance.

- Paul

It depends on the situation.

There have been a number of occasions where a signal dropped immediately in front of a train as it was proceeding at speed. How is that the operator's fault?

Dan

Of course it depends on the situation, but even with bus services, half the time theres barely any excuse for running a full-red light.
Thats what makes the job so hard.

TTC driver who ran a red light says she couldn’t have stopped safely - Toronto | Globalnews.ca

The TTC driver who was fired after running a red light on Eglinton Avenue said she didn’t realize the light changed red and couldn’t stop in time - so she drove through.

globalnews.ca

 

[lenaitch]

That’s a gross oversimplification. Many factors affect how much disciplinary action, if any, is taken.

We haven’t heard all sides of the story - that’s what investigations are for. It’s a serious situation, but we should not rush to judgement.

The bigger point is, some form of ATP, be it PTC or ETCS or equivalent would have made a big difference in this instance.

- Paul

And any disciplinary or other sanction action will not come from the TSB - that is outside of its mandate and authority.

 

[Metroscapes]

One year ago today, we came dangerously close to witnessing the most catastrophic accident in GO Transit history—an incident that has never really been publically acknowledged by Metrolinx. Instead, it was swiftly swept under the rug, with passengers being told their trains were simply delayed due to a ‘signal issue’ when in reality, two GO trains nearly collided head-on.

The Transport Safety Board of Canada is currently conducting an investigation on this incident, here is their brief on the incident;

Rail transportation safety investigation R24T0064 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

The occurrenceOn 14 March 2024 at 1702 Eastern Daylight Time, eastbound GO Transit commuter train 1028 (GO 1028), was departing the station track at the GO Aldershot Station in Burlington, Ontario, when it passed by signal 344 displaying a Stop indication. The train then ran through a power...

www.tsb.gc.ca

...

This incident highlights serious deficiencies within the GO train network and exposes a troubling lack of transparency within MX. PTC would address many of these issues, yet very little progress has been made in implementing it. Worse still, rather than openly acknowledging the severity of the incident, it was downplayed and essentially concealed from the public. Furthermore, one of the employees on the train that passed the stop signal without authority had a known medical condition that may have interfered with his ability to operate—yet he was still allowed to continue in such a critical role. This raises serious concerns about their hiring practices and ability to retain qualified staff. The fact that he was allowed to remain on duty even after the issue became apparent—prior to this incident—can almost certainly be attributed to chronic understaffing and a growing exodus of experienced personnel driven by low morale, high stress levels, and overall dissatisfaction with the company and agency.

Without immediate action to modernize safety systems, enforce stricter operational standards, and commit to greater transparency, we may not be as fortunate next time.

And any disciplinary or other sanction action will not come from the TSB - that is outside of its mandate and authority.

Thanks for posting Skyline, I hadn't known about this. To be clear, the TSB investigation is ongoing. Anyone who's read a TSB report knows how amazingly thorough it is in determining all factors in an incident, big and small. And while they don't assign fault or point fingers, they do lay out what they believe were the primary and secondary causes, and will make recommendations to Transport Canada. I wouldn't expect any action until that investigation is complete, and when it is, TSB publishes the full report online.

Many will recall the collision at Union Station in 1997. That led to changes that made front-end operation by the engineer mandatory, and improved accessibility of emergency brakes.

The 17B is a very interesting route that could be a test for both permanent weekend service between Waterloo and Burlington/Hamilton and a year-round express service, skipping Guelph.

It’s a pleasant surprise to see for 2025.

The part that surprises me is that it will apparently stop at Kitchener GO. That, to me, is a great inherent flaw of the 17 right now. But it doesn't solve a key problem if the 17B isn't stopping in downtown Guelph. How hard is it to directly connect two medium-sized downtowns that are 30 minutes away from each other?!

 

[WB62]

For the past 3 years, around this time there’s been big service improvements to the Kitchener Line:

Spring 2023 saw the introduction of weekend service.
Spring 2024 saw the introduction of all day 30 minute service between Union and Bramalea.
Spring 2025 brings rush hour service improvements.

I can’t wait to see what the future brings!

 

[sixrings]

For the past 3 years, around this time there’s been big service improvements to the Kitchener Line:

Spring 2023 saw the introduction of weekend service.
Spring 2024 saw the introduction of all day 30 minute service between Union and Bramalea.
Spring 2025 brings rush hour service improvements.

I can’t wait to see what the future brings!

Same. Can’t wait to see how Kitchener with a population of 282000 and 106kms away from union gets more frequent and all day service before Mississauga with a population of 770000 and 26kms away from union. Makes total sense.

 

[Achemarci]

Same. Can’t wait to see how Kitchener with a population of 282000 and 106kms away from union gets more frequent and all day service before Mississauga with a population of 770000 and 26kms away from union. Makes total sense.

Milton line has 1 more train than 35 years ago. Meanwhile even Allandale Waterfront GO gets more than train service than Milton GO......

 

[T3G]

Milton is not the only GO service in Mississauga though, so I don't see how this is valid as a 1:1 comparison.

I don't know what GO is expected to do; we live in a country that allows freight operators to hold passenger trains operating on their network hostage, this is the result. Good luck trying to change that. The only thing that can be done is to either expand the corridor, at great cost, to give GO their own tracks, or build a bypass for CP so that they exit the Galt sub. Both would be incredibly expensive, long term projects. If superior service can be achieved to Kitchener at cheaper cost in the interim, are they supposed to not do so, out of respect to the people who live along the Milton line?

As I keep saying - do yourself a favour and get a car. No matter how much we want to pretend to be supporters of transit, there are many use cases where that won't be a feasible option for decades to come. Rejoice that the option of tearing down the Gardiner has been taken away from Toronto. Small victories.

 

[sixrings]

Milton is not the only GO service in Mississauga though, so I don't see how this is valid as a 1:1 comparison.

I don't know what GO is expected to do; we live in a country that allows freight operators to hold passenger trains operating on their network hostage, this is the result. Good luck trying to change that. The only thing that can be done is to either expand the corridor, at great cost, to give GO their own tracks, or build a bypass for CP so that they exit the Galt sub. Both would be incredibly expensive, long term projects. If superior service can be achieved to Kitchener at cheaper cost in the interim, are they supposed to not do so, out of respect to the people who live along the Milton line?

As I keep saying - do yourself a favour and get a car. No matter how much we want to pretend to be supporters of transit, there are many use cases where that won't be a feasible option for decades to come. Rejoice that the option of tearing down the Gardiner has been taken away from Toronto. Small victories.

Port credit is resistant to development. Almost exclusively all the development is at MCC where there isn’t NIMBYs. So the fact that there is another GO line doesn’t help most of the people who would use the system. And it’s a slap in the face that those with less finances have to go to the “rich” area to get better service.

I would argue yes GO should stop spending money to service places like Kitchener if they can’t get places like Mississauga right first. It does cost money to service these places and every dollar spent there is money not being used to correct the Milton situation.

You can add every stop between Brampton and Kitchener and you just get to about the Mississauga population. That’s a problem.

Have two cars. Thanks. The idea of transit is not to only get people who don’t have cars to use it but to get people who have cars to leave theirs at home. These people we refer to as choice riders. This is what successful transit looks like anyways.

 

[T3G]

Have two cars. Thanks. The idea of transit is not to only get people who don’t have cars to use it but to get people who have cars to leave theirs at home. These people we refer to as choice riders. This is what successful transit looks like anyways.

I know all about the concepts behind transit.

My point is that the result you are pushing for requires a ton of money and dedication and no one really seems interested in taking it up. In the meantime, crying foul over Kitchener getting all day service feels like sour grapes. It's not Kitchener's fault that they are situated on a corridor where that can be achieved easier than Mississauga and Milton.

 

[sixrings]

I know all about the concepts behind transit.

My point is that the result you are pushing for requires a ton of money and dedication and no one really seems interested in taking it up. In the meantime, crying foul over Kitchener getting all day service feels like sour grapes. It's not Kitchener's fault that they are situated on a corridor where that can be achieved easier than Mississauga and Milton.

Sorry that I find it frustrating that a place that not too long ago was served simply by VIA Rail (since it’s 106kms away!) is essentially surpassing a place (26kms away) which has been served by GO for decades.

 

[Bordercollie]

It depends on the situation.

There have been a number of occasions where a signal dropped immediately in front of a train as it was proceeding at speed. How is that the operator's fault?

Dan

But wouldn't RTC know that the train ran a red light