GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[torontowest91]

what's the latest update with park lawn go? construction started? I know they moved some gas line.. but any other updates?

 

[Allandale25]

what's the latest update with park lawn go? construction started? I know they moved some gas line.. but any other updates?

There was a brief reference to construction starting in 2025 on Toronto Mike's podcast where he asked Councillor Morley questions from listeners. I can try to find the time marked link later.

 

[generalcanada]

So were a week away from the new year, no news about the transition to onexpress in Jan 1?
how much of a crapshow will it be?

 

[Northern Light]

So were a week away from the new year, no news about the transition to onexpress in Jan 1?

There's been lots of news.............did you have a nap? LOL

The transition isn't happening............... until September '25. An eight month delay, they weren't ready.

how much of a crapshow will it be?

It would have been horrendous.

I'm still not sure what their situation is in terms of front-line train crews........

@smallspy may be able to update us on that.

 

[generalcanada]

I'm still not sure what their situation is in terms of front-line train crews........

Thats what i mean

 

[SkylineHorizons]

until ONXpress takes over, and that's been delayed until Sept 2025.

October 4th 2025 is the new tentative date the guys over there have been told. Though rumor has it Alstom may be in the picture for much much longer than that... there are rumors that OnExpress has failed entirely. No idea how valid those are but evidently most of the upper management at Onxpress has jumped ship.

It doesn't need to be a major change though. The changes can be implemented incrementally as additional crews finish training. It would be weird to leave newly-trained crews sitting idle just to save some paperwork.

From what I have heard, Alstom walked away from managing the crewing operation fairly quickly once Onxpress had feet on the ground. There have been questions about whether there are enough crews for current operations. There may be trainees in progress right now, but I wonder if hiring anf training has happened at the necessary pace over 2024 to ramp up as required to meet the expansion schedule. If Onxpress's ability to hire is now postponed until late 2025, is there now a gap in that training throughput ? As a spectator I'm just avoiding any assumptions that the crews are available for any service upgrade.

- Paul

There won't be(or barely) any new crews for a while, Alstom more or less stopped training months ago prior to ONX intended takeover. Basically no engr and only a handful of cndrs training atm as Willy noted.

Yes. Alstom had already been trying to restrict vacations (an earned benefit, and totally predictable) just to keep up. Reportedly Onxpress was not willing to assume the entire workforce, and looking to impose further restrictions.

They're also letting the people they f***ed over last year bid for their vacation. The 2/3rds of the workforce that didnt get any in the vacation year (which strangely runs from May to April) is being allowed to bid for vacation time between Jan and Apr 2025. Onxpress originally had a vacation blackout period from Jan to Apr to help with the transition by having all hands on deck, but now that Alstom is continuing on that won't be needed.

I don't doubt that we are headed in that direction. The issue is, Onxpress will want it on day one whereas the union will have a number of reservations, and likely want a number of rules or regulatory changes to make it work.... plus protection of jobs and transition accommodations. Maybe signalling or procedures need to be modified, and validated carefully.

I'm a bit jaded but, it's not the first time a management team might think they were ready to proceed with a big change while people are pointing out the many ducks that need to be coaxed into a row first. My inclination is, we may not be ready to get there.... and the new management may need to experience a year or two of the current regime before they jump too fast or too far.

If the new operator thought they could make this magnitude of change by just waving a big wand and jumping in at the deep end..... and relied on immediate labour savings to price their bid.....they may have miscalculated imho.

- Paul

No doubt. The union will argue "safety" as the main reason for having 2 crew members at the front of every train. I think it's silly that we have 2 crew members at the front of every UP express train. Those trains are no bigger than the trains you see in the U.K.. A country that has had 1 crew member at the front of every train for over a century with no issues at all surrounding safety. If it wasn't for our outdated signal system, the UP express trains could easily be operated by a single crew member.

Onxpress wasn't even pushing for a crew reductions so the union never had to make any arguments in that regard. That said, there is no doubt that Union would certainly fight for a continuation of the existing creing requirements and the currently collective agreement specifically spells out the crewing requirements which prohibits the company from modifying it without coming to an agreement with the Union. Cost savings would have come from their attempt to build a new collective agreement from scratch which would have gotten rid of various existing clauses that are quite lucrative for the work force. For example Engineers working on the spareboard must cover the first avaliable vacancies be it for either an Engineer or Conductor position. However if they are covering for a Conductor position they will still get paid their Engineer rate regardless. Alstom seems to like the added flexibility this gives them but Onxpress was purposing to completely separate the Engineer and Conductor positions so that one can only ever be called for the position they are qualified for.

Just so we're clear. I'm not suggesting that by upgrading the signal system will lead to crew members being fired/ laid off. My thinking is that by shrinking crew sizes down, MX can better manage the staff they currently have to run more trains. It would simply be a matter of moving staff around. No one's getting let go.

The first position that will be removed is the CSA. Automated announcements, changes to the role of Station Attendants(now positioned on platforms), automated ramp testing, etc, etc. The writing is on the wall which is why a lot of CSA who were previously 'lifers' decided to pursue moving up to the headend when the company gave them a second chance.

The only thing i can think off for Lifestyle... freight lifestyle is 24/7 on call

Interestingly enough, Onxpress wanted to get rid of the separate morning and afternoon boards and wanted to go with a 24hr spareboard as well. Although it was going to be structured in a way where everyone should get called more or less at around the same general time each day. People would initially bid for their 'spot' on the board. I.e 1st up, 2nd up, 3rd up and so on, and that is the position you hold every day, every week, rather than having a rotating spareboard position. Additionally everyone on the board would be used every single day. Those who didn't get a call to work on a train would be called to fill a 'spare' post. No more extra days off, staying at home on the spareboard when they don't need you. From what I understand this was an idea they hijacked from the TTC.

personally I think the better move is to go for VIA, pay is similar to a Class 1, but the benefits and pension are way better and you aren't putting your career in a hard reset.

VIA was definitely the palce to go, but the new rest rules have made it somewhat less desirable by changing how many jobs are structured and resulting in crews to spending more time away from home which is problematic for those with families.

 

[T3G]

Phew. I was worried something might happen in this country that isn't a complete shambles.

 

[Sauga89]

This could go in a few different threads but I'll put it here. cc @Northern Light

BRIEF: GO Transit to Expand Service to Six Nations

The Ontario Government is proposing to amend the Metrolinx Act to expand the GO Transit service area to include the Six Nations of the Grand River and Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation reserves.

www.thepublicrecord.ca

^ I wonder what the frequency will be.

So, this article here from August says the 15 GO bus extension will run three times a day, with four stops, as a pilot project. It says that it could begin as soon as December, but that they might wait until April when the weather is better. It says Metrolinx has (as of August), already begun testing the route. It also says that there will be stops in Brantford and Hamilton, so it doesn't look like there will be a stop at Caledonia or the Hamilton airport.

There are a couple other articles about it here and here. It seems a transportation study was done in the last couple years, and this is one of the results of that study.

 

[nfitz]

That's going to be a long trip if it first has to go to Brantford, and then backtrack through the reserve all the way to 6. A bit second-class I think.

Though it would provide service between the reserve and Brantford - though I don't know why such services aren't regional responsibility.

 

[ShonTron]

That's going to be a long trip if it first has to go to Brantford, and then backtrack through the reserve all the way to 6. A bit second-class I think.

Though it would provide service between the reserve and Brantford - though I don't know why such services aren't regional responsibility.

The City of Brantford – which has a fixed-route bus system – does not directly border Six Nations, the County of Brant does. There’s no regional government; some sort of arrangement with Six Nations, Brant County, and Brantford is necessary. It can be done – Peterborough, Selwyn, and Curve Lake First Nation have done it. But getting GO Transit involved, you can skip all that.

Yeah, it’s be a long trip (without a toilet) to Hamilton, especially if having to then transfer to go downtown or one of the general hospitals. I’d like to see a GO route serving Six Nations, Caledonia and Hamilton Airport.

 

[Fritter]

there are rumors that OnExpress has failed entirely. No idea how valid those are but evidently most of the upper management at Onxpress has jumped ship.

If these rumours are true, I wonder if that factored into Verster's decision to jump ship as well?

 

[Mind_the_gap]

[...] Peterborough, Selwyn, and Curve Lake First Nation have done it. But getting GO Transit involved, you can skip all that. [...]

Kind of surprised @micheal_can didn't reply to this... GOVA (Sudbury): "101 Lively" runs right into Atikameksheng Anishnawbek First Nation every two hours at worst.

 

[Allandale25]

This person says that this was the email sent to Alstom staff on Christmas Eve which I don't think has been posted here but has been generally discussed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gotransit/comments/1hmgflw/christmas_eve_notice_to_alstom_staff

Subject: Holiday Service and Continuing Operational Support

ALL CONCERNED:

As we are now embarking on the holiday season, the transportation services we provide are critical to the communities we serve so that people can spend time with loved ones. It's the selfless dedication of our team that ensures this occurs.

Over the previous weeks we have seen an unprecedented level of refusals to accept canvassing requests for overtime and we are now starting to see a high level of book offs compared to similar periods previously. We have written to the Teamsters Union's Leadership on this matter. We hope that the trend we are seeing stabilizes and quickly returns to normal levels so that we are able to provide the services that our community rightfully expects from us. However please be assured, any unauthorized absences will be reviewed in accordance with Alstom policies, and our CBA, and appropriate action taken.

Alstom was only recently notified of the need for ongoing support, and we stepped in at short notice to ensure continuity of service and employment for our people. The agreement with Metrolinx to extend the contract until 4 October 2025 was only signed on 17 December 2024. We are working tirelessly and together with your support, will always seek to recognize and reward our people appropriately.

We stand ready to work with the Teamsters Union Leadership on any matters that impact you and our business.

Alstom Management Team

 

[Metroscapes]

That's going to be a long trip if it first has to go to Brantford, and then backtrack through the reserve all the way to 6. A bit second-class I think.

Though it would provide service between the reserve and Brantford - though I don't know why such services aren't regional responsibility.

The City of Brantford – which has a fixed-route bus system – does not directly border Six Nations, the County of Brant does. There’s no regional government; some sort of arrangement with Six Nations, Brant County, and Brantford is necessary. It can be done – Peterborough, Selwyn, and Curve Lake First Nation have done it. But getting GO Transit involved, you can skip all that.

Yeah, it’s be a long trip (without a toilet) to Hamilton, especially if having to then transfer to go downtown or one of the general hospitals. I’d like to see a GO route serving Six Nations, Caledonia and Hamilton Airport.

This may be a long trip between Six Nations and Hamilton / Aldershot, but remember that this is in consultation with Six Nations. It may be possible that going to Brantford is a higher priority; it is the home of their other reserve lands (Glebe Farm) and the Woodland Cultural Centre (former Indian Residential School turned art gallery, museum and library, and possibly home to undiscovered grave sites). There may be other important economic, social and cultural places for Haudenosaunee people that are more important than the GTA.

In fact, I'm shocked that Toronto-centred GO Transit is not running the shortest route. That said, if there is a desire to do that, service via Caledonia and Hamilton Airport would be a great side benefit for others.

 

[nfitz]

The City of Brantford – which has a fixed-route bus system – does not directly border Six Nations, the County of Brant does. There’s no regional government; some sort of arrangement with Six Nations, Brant County, and Brantford is necessary.

By regional, I'm not meaning within or to neighbouring third orders of government. I'm using the term in the more general sense. This is the same problem that's plagued St. Thomas-London service. It's a no brainer to have a regular direct link between the two; but it's stymied by dealing with two different govvernments.