GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[reaperexpress]

I understand this might be a much more complicated matter but have you done any conceptual timetables of the LSE when the expansion programme is fully complete?

Yes I did some concepts to see what the effects would be of cancelling the Scarborough Grade Separation and thus constraining LSE to 2 tracks from Scarborough Junction to Union

 

[crs1026]

It doesn't need to be a major change though. The changes can be implemented incrementally as additional crews finish training. It would be weird to leave newly-trained crews sitting idle just to save some paperwork.

From what I have heard, Alstom walked away from managing the crewing operation fairly quickly once Onxpress had feet on the ground. There have been questions about whether there are enough crews for current operations. There may be trainees in progress right now, but I wonder if hiring anf training has happened at the necessary pace over 2024 to ramp up as required to meet the expansion schedule. If Onxpress's ability to hire is now postponed until late 2025, is there now a gap in that training throughput ? As a spectator I'm just avoiding any assumptions that the crews are available for any service upgrade.

- Paul

 

[WB62]

From what I have heard, Alstom walked away from managing the crewing operation fairly quickly once Onxpress had feet on the ground. There have been questions about whether there are enough crews for current operations. There may be trainees in progress right now, but I wonder if hiring anf training has happened at the necessary pace over 2024 to ramp up as required to meet the expansion schedule. If Onxpress's ability to hire is now postponed until late 2025, is there now a gap in that training throughput ? As a spectator I'm just avoiding any assumptions that the crews are available for any service upgrade.

- Paul

There are currently 2 CTO’s training on the network today, I haven’t seen CSA trainees on the bulletin page for at least 2 months.

 

[Allandale25]

^ Is that...concerning in terms of having more crews available to run more service?

 

[crs1026]

^ Is that...concerning in terms of having more crews available to run more service?

Yes. Alstom had already been trying to restrict vacations (an earned benefit, and totally predictable) just to keep up. Reportedly Onxpress was not willing to assume the entire workforce, and looking to impose further restrictions.

New CTO's don't just appear off the street, it's a lengthy training regime - so any interruption of new hiring and training will shrink the workforce. The employer has to hire just to address attrition, let alone expansion.

- Paul

 

[Bojaxs]

Yes. Alstom had already been trying to restrict vacations (an earned benefit, and totally predictable) just to keep up. Reportedly Onxpress was not willing to assume the entire workforce, and looking to impose further restrictions.

New CTO's don't just appear off the street, it's a lengthy training regime - so any interruption of new hiring and training will shrink the workforce. The employer has to hire just to address attrition, let alone expansion.

- Paul

With all the issues Metrolinx is having surrounding staffing issues, you'd think they'd make upgrading signals across the entire network a bigger priority. That way they can shrink train crews from 3 to 2 and increase frequencies without having to hire more staff. Or at least be able to comfortably manage service upgrades from April 2024.

 

[crs1026]

With all the issues Metrolinx is having surrounding staffing issues, you'd think they'd make upgrading signals across the entire network a bigger priority. That way they can shrink train crews from 3 to 2 and increase frequencies without having to hire more staff. Or at least be able to comfortably manage service upgrades from April 2024.

Redesigning and replacing signals systems is a huge undertaking with a multi year timeframe. Doesn't change the need to staff up to meet the next few years' growth and the transition to the new operator..

It's also a big challenge from a labour relations perspective. There will be union opposition, look how long it took TTC to change its subway staffing.

Reportedly, Onxpress has been attempting a "collective agreement reset" where the incoming work rules are significantly different - a "clear the slate for day one" approach. They may have some good ideas, but that strategy strikes me as strategically foolish, and a bit naive considering Canadian labour law and the prevailing politics.

There are sufficient implementation and transition issues that the last thing one would want during the handover is labour unrest. If I were running the show I would simply accept the current labour regime, possibly simply propose an extension of the first collective agreement, and postpone any talk of changing the work rules until the next contract negotiation. And, in the meanwhile, test the political winds carefully - a GO Transit strike plays considerably different than, say, Canada Post.

- Paul

 

[Bojaxs]

Redesigning and replacing signals systems is a huge undertaking with a multi year timeframe. Doesn't change the need to staff up to meet the next few years' growth and the transition to the new operator..

It's also a big challenge from a labour relations perspective. There will be union opposition, look how long it took TTC to change its subway staffing.

Reportedly, Onxpress has been attempting a "collective agreement reset" where the incoming work rules are significantly different - a "clear the slate for day one" approach. They may have some good ideas, but that strategy strikes me as strategically foolish, and a bit naive considering Canadian labour law and the prevailing politics.

There are sufficient implementation and transition issues that the last thing one would want during the handover is labour unrest. If I were running the show I would simply accept the current labour regime, possibly simply propose an extension of the first collective agreement, and postpone any talk of changing the work rules until the next contract negotiation. And, in the meanwhile, test the political winds carefully - a GO Transit strike plays considerably different than, say, Canada Post.

- Paul

No doubt. The union will argue "safety" as the main reason for having 2 crew members at the front of every train. I think it's silly that we have 2 crew members at the front of every UP express train. Those trains are no bigger than the trains you see in the U.K.. A country that has had 1 crew member at the front of every train for over a century with no issues at all surrounding safety. If it wasn't for our outdated signal system, the UP express trains could easily be operated by a single crew member.

 

[crs1026]

No doubt. The union will argue "safety" as the main reason for having 2 crew members at the front of every train. I think it's silly that we have 2 crew members at the front of every UP express train. Those trains are no bigger than the trains you see in the U.K.. A country that has had 1 crew member at the front of every train for over a century with no issues at all surrounding safety. If it wasn't for our outdated signal system, the UP express trains could easily be operated by a single crew member.

I don't doubt that we are headed in that direction. The issue is, Onxpress will want it on day one whereas the union will have a number of reservations, and likely want a number of rules or regulatory changes to make it work.... plus protection of jobs and transition accommodations. Maybe signalling or procedures need to be modified, and validated carefully.

I'm a bit jaded but, it's not the first time a management team might think they were ready to proceed with a big change while people are pointing out the many ducks that need to be coaxed into a row first. My inclination is, we may not be ready to get there.... and the new management may need to experience a year or two of the current regime before they jump too fast or too far.

If the new operator thought they could make this magnitude of change by just waving a big wand and jumping in at the deep end..... and relied on immediate labour savings to price their bid.....they may have miscalculated imho.

- Paul

 

[Bojaxs]

The issue is, Onxpress will want it on day one whereas the union will have a number of reservations, and likely want a number of rules or regulatory changes to make it work.... plus protection of jobs and transition accommodations

Just so we're clear. I'm not suggesting that by upgrading the signal system will lead to crew members being fired/ laid off. My thinking is that by shrinking crew sizes down, MX can better manage the staff they currently have to run more trains. It would simply be a matter of moving staff around. No one's getting let go.

 

[Krypto98]

From what I have heard, Alstom walked away from managing the crewing operation fairly quickly once Onxpress had feet on the ground. There have been questions about whether there are enough crews for current operations. There may be trainees in progress right now, but I wonder if hiring anf training has happened at the necessary pace over 2024 to ramp up as required to meet the expansion schedule. If Onxpress's ability to hire is now postponed until late 2025, is there now a gap in that training throughput ? As a spectator I'm just avoiding any assumptions that the crews are available for any service upgrade.

- Paul

If I recall correctly they canceled 2 classes of 15 CSAs back in September. One of my coworkers from CN almost got hired for one of them... a few people apparently resigned from their old jobs too for that posting but then learned they were canceled a week before they were supposed to start...

 

[Bojaxs]

If I recall correctly they canceled 2 classes of 15 CSAs back in September. One of my coworkers from CN almost got hired for one of them... a few people apparently resigned from their old jobs too for that posting but then learned they were canceled a week before they were supposed to start...

Don't the class 1 freight companies pay more for engineer/ conductors than GO does?

Why would someone leave CN for GO? No night shift?

 

[smallspy]

If it wasn't for our outdated signal system, the UP express trains could easily be operated by a single crew member.

The signal system has nothing to do with it.

Metrolinx (or Alstom, or Onxpress) could apply for a waiver tomorrow that would allow them to operate with one-man crews. The precedent exists in Canada, and has for quite some time.

Dan

 

[WB62]

I think it's silly that we have 2 crew members at the front of every UP express train.

Whats funny (or tragic depending on how you look at it), is that there’s actually 3 crew members on the UP Express trains. You may be wondering what the CSA is doing since announcements and dispatching is done up front, and the answer is nothing! They’re just along for the ride while the 2 up front operate the train.

 

[jcam]

UP Express hasn’t operated with CSA’s since January, but yes this was a thing lol

A loooong time ago, they used to check everyone's tickets/PRESTO card.