GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[afransen]

I smell an opportunity for Bonnie Crombie to propose dissolving Metrolinx and giving cities some funding. Marit Styles is proposing big changes with transit funding.

Not sure this would be a good idea. A regional transit agency is probably necessary. It could just be run more transparently and accountably.

 

[nfitz]

Not sure this would be a good idea. A regional transit agency is probably necessary. It could just be run more transparently and accountably.

I don't think a Liberal government that is further right than the last Liberal government is going to do that.

 

[WB62]

Developments being proposed near Metrolinx-owned rail corridors listed on the Toronto AIC page have noise studies that show the current planned amount of train movements per day on each line. (I was not the one to notice this but I’ll happily pass it along):

I also made a diagram listing the daytime numbers (0700-2300) and how frequent departures would be if they were averaged out over the 16 hour period. For simplicities sake I have assumed every train is running revenue between these hours, that obviously will not be the case but it would be impossible for me to pick out which of them would be non-revenue:

The AIC sources are also listed here but I believe every development proposal within a few hundred metres of a rail corridor would have these listed in their noise studies.

 

[Northern Light]

^^^^^

Excellent post @Willybru21

And due credit to your diligent observer.

 

[Dan416]

Milton looks as disappointing as ever, if not even more so.

 

[afransen]

Developments being proposed near Metrolinx-owned rail corridors listed on the Toronto AIC page have noise studies that show the current planned amount of train movements per day on each line. (I was not the one to notice this but I’ll happily pass it along):
View attachment 614963View attachment 614964View attachment 614965View attachment 614966View attachment 614967View attachment 614968View attachment 614969

I also made a diagram listing the daytime numbers (0700-2300) and how frequent departures would be if they were averaged out over the 16 hour period. For simplicities sake I have assumed every train is running revenue between these hours, that obviously will not be the case but it would be impossible for me to pick out which of them would be non-revenue:View attachment 614987
The AIC sources are also listed here but I believe every development proposal within a few hundred metres of a rail corridor would have these listed in their noise studies.

This is really damning with regard to level of service on the Milton Line, considering the ridership it achieves despite the paltry level of service.

 

[Dan416]

And I have to stay the Milton trains are absolutely packed these past few weeks (I normally take the 8 am train from Cooksville and the 5:55 pm from Union--been waiting forever for them to add a train in between 5:25 and 5:55, i.e. at 5:40 pm).

 

[Allandale25]

^ In 2024, the province made its offer to the feds publicly known including the cost. We'll see if the Province and Federal government will commit. One would think that if the CPC wants to demonstrate ways to help the environment without the carbon tax that this would be a good example, and Mississauga/Milton are key swing/battleground seats...

 

[nfitz]

I'd noticed this for some developments near Danforth GO. I hadn't put 2+2 together.

Though what's the planning year for this - I don't recall an indication? Is this ultimate, decades from now, or as soon as perhaps 2041.

 

[WB62]

I'd noticed this for some developments near Danforth GO. I hadn't put 2+2 together.

Though what's the planning year for this - I don't recall an indication? Is this ultimate, decades from now, or as soon as perhaps 2041.

I’m sure Metrolinx intends to have most of, if not all, planned GO Expansion projects wrapped up by 2032-35. I know 2032 was previously mentioned somewhere.

Of course that is under the assumption that everything goes perfectly, which is pretty unlikely to happen

 

[Bojaxs]

This is really damning with regard to level of service on the Milton Line, considering the ridership it achieves despite the paltry level of service.


View attachment 614992

I'll offer some push back.
I don't think this is realistic. There's no way Metrolinx can get to these frequencies with 3 crew member trains. The staffing costs would bankrupt them. Frequencies under 10 minutes and Metrolinx is going to have to seriously consider running automated trains (would that even be legal?) or figure out how to shrink train crews down to 1 man per train. The amount of staffing that would be required to get to less than 10 minute frequency would be immense. Metrolinx's ability to provide high frequencies is dependent on how much they've budgeted for crew payroll.
And as I pointed out earlier, a single crew train means all stations need to have level boarding.

 

[nfitz]

So where the Lakeshore and Stouffville lines are concurrent with the Ontario line, then we'd have up to 19 GO trains per hour per direction and 40 Ontario Line trains per hour per direction. And let's assume 1 VIA train per hour per direction (probably higher some hours). So that's 120 total trains an hour. Or a train every 30 seconds, on average. If you are somewhere where you can hear the trains running in the daytime, then silence will be rarer than hearing a train.

There's no way Metrolinx can get to these frequencies with 3 crew member trains. The staffing costs would bankrupt them.

I'd assume that the plan would be that once they start looking more like subway trains and subway frequencies, to get to one-person crews, and fare inspectors, etc.

Of course this would require regulatory changes.

 

[WB62]

I'd assume that the plan would be that once they start looking more like subway trains

No the plan intended to use our existing coaches and electric engines. The screenshots of the documents above even show the train lengths and how many diesel and electric engines will be pulling trains on certain lines.

 

[nfitz]

No this is the plan using our existing coaches and electric engines.

You've got the numbers closer than hand, but I'd be really surprised if there's enough existing coaches to do that type of service on the main 5 lines - even with the much shorter trains.

And what's the lifespan on the coaches? The oldest ones will be 50 years soon. The bi-level fleet is only going to shrink from now on.

I'd think that there has to be an EMU option in the pipeline to start providing some of this service sooner than later.

Great work though! You should make sure that when the media (and non-media like blogTO) pick this up, that they credit it you (and your source) for putting it together!

 

[crs1026]

None of those numbers are a surprise - but completion of the capital program does not imply that there will immediately be demand or peak service frequencies operated as of that date. Those numbers will likely reflect 2040 or even 2050 levels. Lots of time to procure equipment snd modify operating practices.
It’s certainly impressive just how far we have come with GO since 1967…. The thought that we might reach max capacity on the central Toronto rail infrastructure never seemed posdible before, but here we are, give or take a couple decades.

- Paul

- Paul