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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

reaperexpress said:
You are certainly not the only person with an irrational aversion to buses, but I think you are overestimating how many others have that same prejudice. For example, the bus+train combo is so popular that during busy periods GO needs to run three double-decker buses back-to-back just to handle the number of people who want to use it to get to Kitchener.
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Most people do not completely discount certain modes of public transit, rather they make choices based on the performance of public transit (speed, frequency, reliability, comfort, etc), regardless of what mode is used to accomplish that.


Rail can be faster than buses, but that is not necessarily the case. Route 30A, which runs non-stop from Bramalea to Kitchener, is considerably faster than the train. For example, you can get off the Kitchener train at Bramalea at 10:09, wait five minutes for bus route 30A (which holds for the train connection), and get to Kitchener earlier than the train you were just on.

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The key difference here is that all Kitchener Line trains make every single stop between Bramalea and Kitchener (even the express trains!) while the bus runs non-stop using a tollway to avoid congestion in the GTA.


The counter-peak situation is currently very bad indeed and needs to be improved. Due to the peak-period traffic congestion, that's one time of day when a direct train has a particularly large advantage over a bus.

As you've described here, the biggest issue is in fact not whether the service is operated by a bus or train, nor how frequent it is, but rather how long the travel time is. Even if we had a direct train every 15 minutes, it would still be very uncompetitive for your trip. If it takes 40 min for you to get to Union, 1h50 on the train and 15 min to get to work from Kitchener GO, then you're still looking at 2h45, which is double your quoted driving time, regardless of how frequent it is, and regardless of the fact that you don't need to take a bus.

This is my point. It is not enough to just ask for a frequent direct train service to Kitchener instead of the bus+train connection. We need to be pushing Metrolinx to operate a faster and more reliable direct train service, because the travel time on its own is already enough to dissuade many riders. That means ensuring that trains from Kitchener and Guelph make as few stops as possible, with separate local trains serving demand between Brampton and Toronto.


A travel time of 1h or less would be an average speed of 100+ km/h, which is far outside of the territory of regional rail. Even the fastest regional trains in the world only average about 80 km/h. Above that is really the territory of intercity rail (stop spacing 25+ km). So Via Rail in our case. The downside of intercity rail is that it tends to be focused on much longer-distance trips (e.g. to London, Sarnia, Windsor) so they can get away with a lower degree of ticket flexibility.

See for example, the case of London UK to Oxford: although there are fast and frequent trains, they have variable ticket prices so if you just show up at the station you end up spending a fortune. Which severely undermines the flexibility of those services for regional travel.
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All great points! I would be the first to admit that my aversion to regional bus service is somewhat irrational. I think I generally find buses more uncomfortable, tend to get motion sickness, and they are at the whim of traffic (which is what I dislike about driving). I take the bus frequently in Toronto, and don’t mind it as much as regional bus services.

I have no doubt that the bus is currently popular. I suspect a direct train would be even more popular!

I think part of this could be solved by having express trains at peak as well.

All of this to say, I appreciate your nuanced view of this, and I think the improvements are good, but wish for even better at some point in the future. Maybe it’s a pipe dream, but having regional transit that is as flexible as local transit would make me ditch my car completely. I absolutely hate driving l, but do it out of necessity.
 
crs1026 said:
Until the Acton and Guelph sidings are done, we won’t see much improvement. Hard to understand why these are progressing so slowly. I suspect the Brampton and Norval-Silver pieces will have to be finished first. CN is procuring design work on these, but no contract tendered for the actual construction. It will be a while yet, unfortunately.
I find that really frustratung.

- Paul
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The Acton and Guelph sidings are currently under construction, but the CN segment is not. It is therefore safe to assume that the Breslau, Guelph and Acton sidings will be activated long before CN expands the trackage east of Georgetown.

So I think that as soon as Metrolinx's sidings are active, they should introduce hourly service between Kitchener and Guelph, even if CN doesn't allow them to run it all the way to Toronto yet. Given the travel time is 17 minutes each way, it only takes a single trainset to run the off-peak service. The capacity of the Kitchener yards is already fully occupied by the peak-period trains to Toronto, so a train would need to be sent to Kitchener from Toronto to run the midday service, arriving in Guelph by 09:00. Once the Breslau, Guelph and Acton sidings are active this would be possible as long as CN grants a slot for it through their segment. Given that it's only one additional round trip per day on CN's line, it shouldn't need to wait until CN's construction is done.

The counter-peak trips to Kitchener from Guelph in the morning could be provided using the existing trainsets that overnight in Kitchener. Some trains would depart Shirley Yard in Kitchener (between Kitchener and Guelph) eastbound towards Guelph shortly ahead of an eastbound train from Kitchener, and sit in the second platform in Guelph until that train leaves. Then it would head westbound, meeting the following eastbound train in Breslau, before arriving in Kitchener and starting an existing eastbound service.

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I was messing around with Google maps. I wanted to see what was the best route for transit to get to work. I live in Oakville and work in Brampton. I always drive to work, never taken transit.

I've come to the conclusion that it only makes sense for me to take transit if I drive to the Trafalgar road, 407 park & ride and grab the 47 GO bus. If I park at the Oakville GO station (which is closer to where I live) I have to get on the 21A GO bus and transfer at the Trafalgar, 407 park & ride. Seems unnecessarily pointless to take a bus that adds roughly 20 minutes to my travel time just to get me up Trafalgar Rd. Plus by parking at the 407 park & ride I get to bypass Sheridan College.

The 47 GO bus essentially travels along the same route I take to work in my car. 403 > 410 > Steeles Rd. > Airport rd. I drive past Bramalea GO station almost everyday, unless I decide to take QEW > 427 to work.

Nearly 6 years I've worked at my job, I've always driven to work. Never taken transit. Never considered the GO buses until recently. I'm going to try this out sometime soon.

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Bojaxs said:
I was messing around with Google maps. I wanted to see what was the best route for transit to get to work. I live in Oakville and work in Brampton. I always drive to work, never taken transit.

I've come to the conclusion that it only makes sense for me to take transit if I drive to the Trafalgar road, 407 park & ride and grab the 47 GO bus. If I park at the Oakville GO station (which is closer to where I live) I have to get on the 21A GO bus and transfer at the Trafalgar, 407 park & ride. Seems unnecessarily pointless to take a bus that adds roughly 20 minutes to my travel time just to get me up Trafalgar Rd. Plus by parking at the 407 park & ride I get to bypass Sheridan College.

The 47 GO bus essentially travels along the same route I take to work in my car. 403 > 410 > Steeles Rd. > Airport rd. I drive past Bramalea GO station almost everyday, unless I decide to take QEW > 427 to work.

Nearly 6 years I've worked at my job, I've always driven to work. Never taken transit. Never considered the GO buses until recently. I'm going to try this out sometime soon.

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You’re looking at the weekend schedule on Google Maps. During weekdays, you have another potential route that could simplify your commute. Route 56 service actually starts at Oakville GO and goes to Bramalea GO. This could offer you a more direct and potentially faster option for getting to work, without the need to drive to or transfer at the Trafalgar park & ride. It might be worth checking out the weekday schedule for this route to see if it aligns better with your needs
 
Amike_416 said:
You’re looking at the weekend schedule on Google Maps. During weekdays, you have another potential route that could simplify your commute. Route 56 service actually starts at Oakville GO and goes to Bramalea GO. This could offer you a more direct and potentially faster option for getting to work, without the need to drive to or transfer at the Trafalgar park & ride. It might be worth checking out the weekday schedule for this route to see if it aligns better with your needs
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Yeah, I actually work on weekends. I work Wednesday-Sunday with Mon/Tuesdays off. So on Wednesday-Fridays I would need to catch the 41 GO bus, and on weekends the 47 GO bus.

The 56 doesn't seem to work for me. The scheduling of the bus doesn't line up with my shift ending at 8:00pm. The 56 arrives at Oakville GO at 10:25pm, while the 21A would arrive at Oakville GO by 9:50pm. I would get home sooner by taking the 41 & 21A transfer vs taking just the 56.

After getting off the 511 Zum, I could mill about at Bramalea GO for almost an hour while waiting for the 56 to arrive, or I can hop on the 41 that's about to leave.
 
Haydenpoon said:
But why would they choose Milton to make the announcement? The Milton Line is only getting 2 extra trips per day.
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I'd assume there'll be another announcement elsewhere for the Lakeshore trips - so they can focus on Milton with this.

Perhaps there'll be further commitments about Milton all-day service.
 
Haydenpoon said:
But why would they choose Milton to make the announcement? The Milton Line is only getting 2 extra trips per day.
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Most people don’t follow details closely, so, when the Premier announces a “massive increase in GO trips” in Milton, they’ll make assumptions as to how much that impacts Milton - regardless of reality.

We also know nothing significant is happening to the Milton line because there’s no federal presence here. Ford and gang have already only committed money iff the feds come to the table.
 
Allandale25 said:
I assume tomorrow will be when the April 28th changes are announced.

Press conference with the Premier and Minister of Transportation in Milton.

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca news.ontario.ca
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I'll say this for the Ford government, they may be wildly inconsistent on any number of policy positions, projects or laws; but there is one thing they are rock solid consistent on.........

They never start a press conference on time!
 
crs1026 said:
I wonder what the voters of Lambton-Kent-Middlesex will think, perhaps a few will remember that Ford has walked back his promise to bring GO trains to London.

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The NDP won all three ridings in London with a fairly large margin so maybe they have given up on trying to buy votes there.

St Marys is in Lambton-Kent-Middlesex, and they may be annoyed that they lost half of their train service. Prior to the pandemic and during the pilot they had two round trips per day (2 Via, and 1 Via + 1 GO, respectively) but now they only have one. The Town of St Mary's has invested a lot in their station - they purchased it from CN, renovated it and pay to staff it. It's one of the only staffed Via stations in a small town. Even St Catharines doesn't have a staffed station.

I've been meaning to email the province to ask for an update on this promise. Who would be the right place to direct the question to? Office of the Minister of Transport?
 
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