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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Perhaps a better solution is to develop a system like the below, but for ebike battery swapping. This is for electric scooters and popular in Taiwan. Perhaps a smaller form factor could work for ebikes.

Just going from the link, but that sounds like a network of common or at least related platforms. I don't know how we could imagine that happening in an open economy. Electric bikes come in all shapes and sizes. Batteries are integral to the frame/body or are mounted on. It would be an ideal world where everything electric was powered by a version of AA or AAA batteries, and maybe some day we will get there. Maybe someday battery packs of EVs will all be interchangeable. I'll believe it when I see my Dewalt tools accepting Bosch or Makita batteries.
 
I will leave it to our rail experts to opine; but I will note that CN/CP already co-produce (share lines), in 2 significant areas in the country, in both cases running traffic unidirectionally down one line and up the other.

That suggests, that for the most part, a two-track corridor should work (one east, one west); there would obviously be a need for some additional track near major yards and such.

Also, what yard are you envisioning CP replacing? Leaside is gone, Obico is gone, not sure what's going on w/Lambton this week, LOL

Final thought, our experts here have suggested that CP may just move Toronto yard (Agincourt) entirely.

None of which is to suggest the Missing Link/Midtown by-pass would be cheap; nor do I have the requisite info to compare value for money vs quad-tracking Milton.
It is interesting to note that those two zones of directional running were achieved between the two companies without government intervention. It also seems they lack similar enthusiasm to share trackage in Toronto. I assume both of those zones solved common problems and avoided any need for large infrastructure layout. It also seems that is lacking here unless a third party or two ponies up the coin. From the freight railways' perspective, what is the problem?

Single track routing obviously works in those two corridors, at least well enough for them to want to stick with it. The Toronto area is the recipient of traffic from all points of the compass. Both CN and CP route a lot of their trans-Canada traffic through the US then back in. The Toronto area is also where trains get assembled and broken requiring more movement, slower movements, track space, etc.

I assume the new yard people mention is Agincourt. If some kind of common ROW took CP traffic away from its current alignment, then it would be in the wrong place. Again, not necessarily a bad idea, but where and who pays.
 
Just going from the link, but that sounds like a network of common or at least related platforms. I don't know how we could imagine that happening in an open economy. Electric bikes come in all shapes and sizes. Batteries are integral to the frame/body or are mounted on. It would be an ideal world where everything electric was powered by a version of AA or AAA batteries, and maybe some day we will get there. Maybe someday battery packs of EVs will all be interchangeable. I'll believe it when I see my Dewalt tools accepting Bosch or Makita batteries.
It doesn't need to be all e-bikes, but perhaps those who would find swapping quite useful would choose an ebike model that is compliant.

I think EV battery swapping is unlikely to become dominant because it requires pretty sophisticated machinery to accomplish due to the weight. Scooters and ebikes can be user swapped.
 
Maybe people in downtown Toronto should just get off their butts and actually go get their food themselves. Hopefully then there won't be any decent money to be made being a food courier, and we'll see a huge reduction in e-bikes crowding the train.
I stopped using these apps long ago cause the delivery charges are too high. How hard is it to take the elevator down to the underground and visit one of the many food courts? I haven't worked in downtown Toronto since 2012. Are things that different nowadays?
 
There's a guy posting on the GO Transit Reddit who seems to have a good grasp of the working culture at Metrolinx. A disgruntled, former employee? He doesn't believe that the Milton line expansion will happen. Apparently MX doesn't want to play ball with CP over track rights.

MiltonLine.png
 
All six bike coaches are currently in use on the Kitchener Line with Metrolinx adding upwards of two bike coaches on several trips in response to overcrowding. This is in addition to the pre-existing capacity of 2-4 bikes per coach elsewhere on any given consist. At some point discussion needs to be had as to how much space we are willing to reallocate from regular customers towards bicycles on board trains. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

Aside from capacity, there are several legitimate concerns beyond the racist undertones online that need to be addressed relating to poor customer etiquette from this particular group of customers. These include, but are not limited to a) the unsafe operation of bikes on station platforms, b) the increased aggression towards regular customers expressing their frustration in their inability to safely board or exit affected trains, c) increased aggression towards Metrolinx and Alstom employees simply performing the jobs they are paid to do, and d) significant delays attributed to poor customer etiquette including the abuse of the yellow emergency strip to allow themselves more time to exit OR the people holding doors for their friends with bikes then wasting further time trying to cram said bikes onto coaches already beyond capacity.
Sounds like a good interim solution would be more enforcement of existing laws. Get the word out about safe use of your bike at stations and one the train and the riders will adjust or face fines.
 
To be fair, “everyone else” isn’t travelling to Downtown Toronto to deliver food via bicycle as means of survival.

Clearly local transit agencies at Malton, Bramalea, Brampton, and Mount Pleasant do not have the capacity to accommodate the multitude of bikes dumped on those platforms, leaving many to cycle the last mile home.


All six bike coaches are currently in use on the Kitchener Line with Metrolinx adding upwards of two bike coaches on several trips in response to overcrowding. This is in addition to the pre-existing capacity of 2-4 bikes per coach elsewhere on any given consist. At some point discussion needs to be had as to how much space we are willing to reallocate from regular customers towards bicycles on board trains. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

Aside from capacity, there are several legitimate concerns beyond the racist undertones online that need to be addressed relating to poor customer etiquette from this particular group of customers. These include, but are not limited to a) the unsafe operation of bikes on station platforms, b) the increased aggression towards regular customers expressing their frustration in their inability to safely board or exit affected trains, c) increased aggression towards Metrolinx and Alstom employees simply performing the jobs they are paid to do, and d) significant delays attributed to poor customer etiquette including the abuse of the yellow emergency strip to allow themselves more time to exit OR the people holding doors for their friends with bikes then wasting further time trying to cram said bikes onto coaches already beyond capacity.


CN charges Metrolinx per axle for operation on the Halton Subdivision. There is also a significant increase in fuel costs associated with operating longer trains. There most certainly isn’t enough demand from regular passengers to warrant the use of twelve coach trains, particularly on the most affected trains in the evenings or on weekends. I don’t exactly fault Metrolinx for analyzing the data and determining that operating longer trains for the sole purpose of increasing bike capacity may not be a wise use of resources, especially when you consider that adding an additional six coaches would at best allow for the safe transport of an additional 24 bikes.

It may be worth highlighting that Metrolinx has already experimented with operating longer trains for the sole purpose of accommodating bikes. Throughout September 2023, the most affected trips departing Union at 21:34 and 22:34 were both twelve coach trains comprised primarily of the older style coaches without the washroom on the lower level. This freed up a second vestibule for bikes on each coach. Bike coaches were introduced the following month and those departures were reduced to six coach trains due to storage capacity constraints in Kitchener following the cancellation of the London service.
You’re looking for racism or an attack on the poor if you can’t see that some people just don’t think bikes should be on a train.
 
You’re looking for racism or an attack on the poor if you can’t see that some people just don’t think bikes should be on a train.
There is literally nobody calling for all bikes to be excluded from trains. Stop starting to start a fight on a premise that doesn‘t exist. The issue is about loading bikes onto train beyond the capacity which permits safe and convenient entry/egress.
 
There's a guy posting on the GO Transit Reddit who seems to have a good grasp of the working culture at Metrolinx. A disgruntled, former employee? He doesn't believe that the Milton line expansion will happen. Apparently MX doesn't want to play ball with CP over track rights.

]

As I keep saying, I'm pretty sure that the people at ML have read Section 152.1 of the Canada Transportation Act.

I'm pretty confident that CP's price, whatever it is, will be cheaper than what would be awarded in arbitration.

Now that the pols are focussed on Milton, and with shovels in the ground on GO Expansion to other places, I bet ML is all about studying the Milton line.

- Paul
 
Maybe people in downtown Toronto should just get off their butts and actually go get their food themselves. Hopefully then there won't be any decent money to be made being a food courier, and we'll see a huge reduction in e-bikes crowding the train.
I stopped using these apps long ago cause the delivery charges are too high. How hard is it to take the elevator down to the underground and visit one of the many food courts? I haven't worked in downtown Toronto since 2012. Are things that different nowadays?

You’re definitely not the first one to note the irony that the food delivery bike economy is centred in the most walkable neighborhoods of the city.

With that being said, the delivery cyclists are going where the orders (and money) are. I think the primary onus should be on the food delivery companies, followed by MLX, to find a solution, be it storage space or additional bike trains.
 
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I rather suspect in the near term we are going to need to accommodate the bikes… As much as no other jurisdiction really carries them in numbers, the combination of market pressures that got us here is also fairly unique. In most places these couriers would, quite frankly, be driving gas scooters and I don’t think anyone wants to push them that way. Frankly even getting them on e-scooters that are insured and COULD make the round trip is going to create a traffic nightmare so long as Brampton is so important….
 
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I rather suspect in the near term we are going to need to accommodate the bikes… As much as no other jurisdiction really carries them in numbers, the combination of market pressures that got us here is also fairly unique. In most places these couriers would, quite frankly, be driving gas scooters and I don’t think anyone wants to push them that way. Frankly even getting them on e-scooters that are insured and COULD make the round trip is going to create a traffic nightmare so long as Brampton is so important….
Just like how drivers had to accommodate cyclists, transit needs to as well.There is bound to be many growing pains in getting to a point of coexistence. Is is one of them.
 
Just like how drivers had to accommodate cyclists, transit needs to as well.There is bound to be many growing pains in getting to a point of coexistence. Is is one of them.
I mean yes... but it's also quite fair to observe that we probably don't want to be transporting bicycles en masse in a generalized long term way for pure efficiency reasons. These couriers really are something of a niche that is causing a lot of headaches at the moment... and a niche the existence of which is kinda a failure in its own right. In the short term I just suspect that the alternatives are WORSE.

And in the long term we are probably looking at something better fixed through service pricing and housing affordability than rules for transit riders
 
I mean yes... but it's also quite fair to observe that we probably don't want to be transporting bicycles en masse in a generalized long term way for pure efficiency reasons. These couriers really are something of a niche that is causing a lot of headaches at the moment... and a niche the existence of which is kinda a failure in its own right. In the short term I just suspect that the alternatives are WORSE.

And in the long term we are probably looking at something better fixed through service pricing and housing affordability than rules for transit riders
Then we better make better cycling storage infrastructure.
 

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