GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Northern Light]

The removal of through service along Derry Road has been especially brutal. Never mind heading into downtown, it takes an age to get anywhere across the region now.

Before, an off peak trip from Milton GO to Scarborough Town Centre took 2 hours and 8 minutes; itself already pretty bad for a trip that takes a mere 57 minutes by car. It takes a clean 3 hours to do the same now. And then we act shocked - shocked - that people opt for driving whenever possible. Why, indeed, might they do that? We self righteously shame people for driving and not taking transit, but making a usable transit system is just too much.

Some of this, is of course, just poor planning. Not that that makes it ok; but just to distinguish it from being willful.

However, some is also a product of a system starved for resources, not unlike our hospitals, our universities and our parks.

Ontario now provides the lowest per capita funding to universities of any province; and has not increased the per capital operating grant by $1 since the Ford gov't took office. They (the gov't) also capped the number of funded spots, leaving universities to find money to cover any losses on a whopping 20,000 students.

It doesn't have to be this way.

Take a look at this, and then know its only gotten worse:

To look at the above in a broader context so as to relate it back to transit:

We had $2,000 less revenue per capita than the average Canadian province; nearly $5,000 less than Quebec.

An additional 2k x 14,000,000 people is 28B per year.

 

[T3G]

Fair, but part of the problem is also that GO doesn't seem to utilize the resources they've got very efficiently, especially where it concerns the double decker bus fleet.

The first gen double deckers were refurbished throughout 2015, and all were pulled by March 2018 - that means that on average, they lasted a mere 2 years after refurbishing. The second gen double deckers began to be refurbished in 2019 (the ones built in 2012), and then they were parked during COVID and never returned to service (these were built 2012-2015, so the last ones were a mere 5 years old when they last ran in service).

Perhaps the argument was that the buses were not very good and should've been retired quickly - which is fair enough, but in that case, why did they bother to refurbish them? They were literally setting money on fire.

This also sums up really well why I find all these recent subway proposals so irksome. I can't fathom why, for example, we should be dragging two subway lines from Sheppard to Scarborough Town Centre, while other communities get the absolute bare minimum in terms of transit.

 

[turbanplanner]

Fair, but part of the problem is also that GO doesn't seem to utilize the resources they've got very efficiently, especially where it concerns the double decker bus fleet.

The first gen double deckers were refurbished throughout 2015, and all were pulled by March 2018 - that means that on average, they lasted a mere 2 years after refurbishing. The second gen double deckers began to be refurbished in 2019 (the ones built in 2012), and then they were parked during COVID and never returned to service (these were built 2012-2015, so the last ones were a mere 5 years old when they last ran in service).

Perhaps the argument was that the buses were not very good and should've been retired quickly - which is fair enough, but in that case, why did they bother to refurbish them? They were literally setting money on fire.

This also sums up really well why I find all these recent subway proposals so irksome. I can't fathom why, for example, we should be dragging two subway lines from Sheppard to Scarborough Town Centre, while other communities get the absolute bare minimum in terms of transit.

Scarbs hasn't really gotten anything in the last 35 years. There is a lot of outrage there from the people I know.

 

[sixrings]

Scarbs hasn't really gotten anything in the last 35 years. There is a lot of outrage there from the people I know.

This is how we should determine where to build. Who is most outraged. Who throws the best fits and who cries the most. I endorse this way of thinking.

 

[T3G]

Scarbs hasn't really gotten anything in the last 35 years. There is a lot of outrage there from the people I know.

What, one overbuilt subway isn't enough? They really need parallel subway lines linking Sheppard Avenue with STC?

Meanwhile, we in Milton would accept rickshaws if they got us where we needed to go in a timely fashion and ran all day.

 

[reaperexpress]

The removal of through service along Derry Road has been especially brutal. Never mind heading into downtown, it takes an age to get anywhere across the region now.

Before, an off peak trip from Milton GO to Scarborough Town Centre took 2 hours and 8 minutes; itself already pretty bad for a trip that takes a mere 57 minutes by car. It takes a clean 3 hours to do the same now. And then we act shocked - shocked - that people opt for driving whenever possible. Why, indeed, might they do that? We self righteously shame people for driving and not taking transit, but making a usable transit system is just too much.

The problem with how they implemented the Milton bus reconfiguration is that other routes were not adjusted enough to maintain a fully functional network for people heading places other than downtown. For example off-peak Route 27 (Milton - Meadowvale - Yorkdale - Finch) trips still run only between Meadowvale and Finch. This might have been okay when Route 21 ran from Milton to Meadowvale anyway, but now that route 21 no longer connects those two stations, it is essential that Route 27 runs to Milton all day.

Current Route 27 schedule

According to the January 2023 Route 21 timetable, an off-peak trip from Milton to Meadowvale takes 30 minutes. So to get to STC with off-peak Route 27 trips it would be:
- Route 27 Milton to Yorkdale (1h15)
- Route 92 Yorkdale to STC (5 min transfer* + 30 min ride)
Total: 1h50
*Route 27 arrives at Yorkdale at :45 past the hour, and route 92 departs at :50. If you miss the connection, there's a Route 94 which departs :00 past the hour and is equally fast.

It is also unfortunate that routes 21 Milton and 16 Hamilton Express are forced to transfer to Lakeshore West train while the service is only 2 local trains per hour. If there were all-day express trains (e.g. every 30 minutes from West Harbour to Union) and additional local trains (e.g. every 30 minutes from Oakville to Union), the time added by the transfer would be a lot less than it is currently.

4 trains per hour off-peak is not that far fetched, we already had that in 2021. Obviously the first priority should be restoring off-peak Barrie and Stouffville trains, but following that I'd like to see an expansion of off-peak Lakeshore service.

Lakeshore West timetable, October 2021:

 

[turbanplanner]

What, one overbuilt subway isn't enough? They really need parallel subway lines linking Sheppard Avenue with STC?

Meanwhile, we in Milton would accept rickshaws if they got us where we needed to go in a timely fashion and ran all day.

This is how we should determine where to build. Who is most outraged. Who throws the best fits and who cries the most. I endorse this way of thinking.

They were promised the RT would be expanded 30 years ago! Now it's being torn down. It's going to be 10 years of bussing around until the subway is built.
I would have preferred an LRT but the fords fucked that up in 2009, otoh the city had a plan in 2006 to upgrade the line but dragged their feet.

Nobody in Milton would take transit if you made it better, apart from GO which they can't because of the railway.

 

[sixrings]

They were promised the RT would be expanded 30 years ago! Now it's being torn down. It's going to be 10 years of bussing around until the subway is built.
I would have preferred an LRT but the fords fucked that up in 2009, otoh the city had a plan in 2006 to upgrade the line but dragged their feet.

Nobody in Milton would take transit if you made it better, apart from GO which they can't because of the railway.

They can fix the railway for the same cost as this expansion.

 

[turbanplanner]

They can fix the railway for the same cost as this expansion.

Realistically how much per additional rider would it be? The subway will cost a fortune but it will be all day service and add tons of ridership.
What percent of Milton riders also don't own a car?

Plus CP or whoever really doesn't want to let them expand.

 

[sixrings]

Realistically how much per additional rider would it be? The subway will cost a fortune but it will be all day service and add tons of ridership.
What percent of Milton riders also don't own a car?

Plus CP or whoever really doesn't want to let them expand.

There’s always an excuse. Thy almost stopped service on sheppard because it was bleeding money and now after a danforth expansion you want to throw good money after bad at sheppard? And you do realize that the Milton line goes right through Mississauga city center which is by far the busiest of gta suburbs and is in the top ten cities population wise of Canada. The Milton line is also the busiest non lakeshore line. And guess what it too would be all day service. Most importantly it wouldn’t be duplicate service.

Also the ttc expropriated land all the time for their subways. Is the GO not capable of expropriating land. Of course it is.

 

[T3G]

They were promised the RT would be expanded 30 years ago! Now it's being torn down. It's going to be 10 years of bussing around until the subway is built.
I would have preferred an LRT but the fords fucked that up in 2009, otoh the city had a plan in 2006 to upgrade the line but dragged their feet.

Nobody in Milton would take transit if you made it better, apart from GO which they can't because of the railway.

Well I'm talking about the GO bus network. If improvements to the rail network are not possible because of the chokehold the private sector has over everything, it is all the more critical that they make up for it in the bus network.

 

[anb]

Scarbs hasn't really gotten anything in the last 35 years. There is a lot of outrage there from the people I know.

LSE? Stouffville? Line 2 extension? Crosstown? Sheppard extension?

Apparently all that isn't anything...

They were promised the RT would be expanded 30 years ago! Now it's being torn down. It's going to be 10 years of bussing around until the subway is built.
I would have preferred an LRT but the fords fucked that up in 2009, otoh the city had a plan in 2006 to upgrade the line but dragged their feet.

Nobody in Milton would take transit if you made it better, apart from GO which they can't because of the railway.

The RT shutting down is unfortunate, but with the Crosstown opening and Stouffville line getting more improved service, it could help a lot more than you think for the next 10 years.

The Milton-Oakville service is something that is becoming more popular and its not Union based anymore instead giving you connections to most places all across the region. In fact combine the Milton GO station with the Park and Ride at Regional Rd 25/401 and you get connections to Waterloo Region, Guelph, Halton Hills/Lisgar, Oakville, Burlington, Hamilton, Mississauga, York Region, Durham Region and of course Toronto. That seems like a centralized hub in the making and can only get even better if there were train service. But if there isn't then the buses will carry Milton into a more transit oriented town.

 

[turbanplanner]

Well I'm talking about the GO bus network. If improvements to the rail network are not possible because of the chokehold the private sector has over everything, it is all the more critical that they make up for it in the bus network.

This is fair, I assumed you were talking about expanding rail.

 

[turbanplanner]

LSE? Stouffville? Line 2 extension? Crosstown? Sheppard extension?

Apparently all that isn't anything...



The RT shutting down is unfortunate, but with the Crosstown opening and Stouffville line getting more improved service, it could help a lot more than you think for the next 10 years.

The Milton-Oakville service is something that is becoming more popular and its not Union based anymore instead giving you connections to most places all across the region. In fact combine the Milton GO station with the Park and Ride at Regional Rd 25/401 and you get connections to Waterloo Region, Guelph, Halton Hills/Lisgar, Oakville, Burlington, Hamilton, Mississauga, York Region, Durham Region and of course Toronto. That seems like a centralized hub in the making and can only get even better if there were train service. But if there isn't then the buses will carry Milton into a more transit oriented town.

Honestly the price tag was comparatively small to rebuild the tunnel and replace all the trains at $600 million. I was hoping as part of it, they'd expand the line to UTSC.

 

[Undead]

The Milton line is also the busiest non lakeshore line.

Kitchener.