GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Jonny5]

Apparently people were sitting on the stairs due to lack of proper seating. Given that it is a fire hazard, I cannot understand how GO transit does not see the need to add more service.

My experience on similar trips this year (not this specific one) is there are two or three cars rammed 105% full, and there are two or three cars almost empty, the rest about 50%. The idea to move down the platform somewhere other than the very top of the staircase and/or entrance point to the platform does not go through the brains of these riders who mostly use GO only one or two times per year. They expect the train is maybe three or four coaches long, and don't know it's 10 or 12 until it's literally there, and even then the idea to move to another car once on board doesn't happen either. Some I've even heard say "I didn't know you were allowed to walk between different cars on the train". You can even hear this sometimes from the CSA who spends two minutes straight requesting people move down the platform and board through different doors, but then gives up because they simply won't do it and you sit and wait another two minutes as they slowly file in the already full car.

All this has been a thing on weekend trains forever. Decades it's been like that. I remember in the 90's they had this problem with Lakeshore trains and I marveled at people complaining about the crowds while I walked down the train and, surprise, found an upper deck with four people on it and 80 empty seats. I wouldn't be surprised if this one was not even at 50% seated capacity.

 

[ShonTron]

My experience on similar trips this year (not this specific one) is there are two or three cars rammed 105% full, and there are two or three cars almost empty, the rest about 50%. The idea to move down the platform somewhere other than the very top of the staircase and/or entrance point to the platform does not go through the brains of these riders who mostly use GO only one or two times per year. They expect the train is maybe three coaches long and don't know it's 10 or 12 until it's literally there. But then the idea to move to another car once on board doesn't happen either. Some I've even heard say "I didn't know you were allowed to walk between different cars on the train". You can even hear this sometimes when the CSA spends two minutes straight requesting people move down the platform and board through different doors, but then gives up because they simply won't do it and you sit and wait another two minutes as they slowly file in the already full car.

All this has been a thing on weekend trains forever. Decades it's been like that. I remember in the 90's they had this problem with Lakeshore trains and I marveled at people complaining about the crowds while I walked down the train and, surprise, found an upper deck with four people on it and 80 empty seats. I wouldn't be surprised if this one was not even at 50% seated capacity.

The digital platform screens should indicate the number of cars for each train. Many regional rail and metro operators include this information on their info screens, GO should do this too.

 

[Jonny5]

Also, I'd like to know how many riders were on these heavily discounted $10 day pass fares. I went to Hamilton to visit family a few weeks ago and was shocked I could pay $10 for a day pass for a trip from Toronto that is normally over $11 each way.
There's a lot of people who talk about GO's vaunted cost-recovery ratio and love to rank it among others because it's usually first, but with the decline in rush hour ridership, and a surge in weekend ridership on 50+% off discounted weekend fares, what will we say if it drops to 40%, or even 30%, and is not the best, but the worst?

More importantly, what will Doug Ford's Conservatives say?

 

[ShonTron]

The weekend day passes are great for enticing ridership back - but on weekends, the Lakeshore trains are packed, and they’re still running every half hour only. Given the reduced service, and the goodwill the passes provide (as long as you know about them) I think it’s worthwhile, at least until the fall. At that point, could hike it to $15 from $10.

Maybe there’s a case for a temporary weekday pass as well, where there’s likely more spare capacity than weekends these days.

 

[LNahid2000]

I have to run an errand at Square One again today and will probably be on the same dreaded 4:40pm bus back downtown. I just checked the GO website and they're running it to Port Credit today thank god. While sitting in traffic downtown yesterday, I was wondering why they didn't do this yesterday.

 

[Bordercollie]

I have to run an errand at Square One again today and will probably be on the same dreaded 4:40pm bus back downtown. I just checked the GO website and they're running it to Port Credit today thank god. While sitting in traffic downtown yesterday, I was wondering why they didn't do this yesterday.

They should do that on weekdays also.

 

[gweed123]

The weekend day passes are great for enticing ridership back - but on weekends, the Lakeshore trains are packed, and they’re still running every half hour only. Given the reduced service, and the goodwill the passes provide (as long as you know about them) I think it’s worthwhile, at least until the fall. At that point, could hike it to $15 from $10.

Maybe there’s a case for a temporary weekday pass as well, where there’s likely more spare capacity than weekends these days.

Maybe rather than doing the flat rate pass, a solution might be the implementation of peak, off-peak weekday, and weekend fares.

Off-peak fares could be a slight discount, while weekend fares could be a heavier discount, but would still take into account distance travelled.

 

[ARG1]

Maybe rather than doing the flat rate pass, a solution might be the implementation of peak, off-peak weekday, and weekend fares.

Off-peak fares could be a slight discount, while weekend fares could be a heavier discount, but would still take into account distance travelled.

Really not a fan of off-peak fares. We really shouldn't be charging people extra based on when they travel.

 

[anb]

I have to run an errand at Square One again today and will probably be on the same dreaded 4:40pm bus back downtown. I just checked the GO website and they're running it to Port Credit today thank god. While sitting in traffic downtown yesterday, I was wondering why they didn't do this yesterday.

Makes me wonder why all the Milton and Kitchener/Guelph buses don't also use Kipling as well. There's like 3 empty bus bays there and its literally next to the subway. Its also a regional hub according to them and technically at a GO station so they cant make the excuse that its not a suitable location. Maybe its the downside of having the new Union bus terminal, but we could honestly just leave that to all intercity buses and some GO bus routes and there wouldn't be any loss overall.

 

[Divas S.]

Makes me wonder why all the Milton and Kitchener/Guelph buses don't also use Kipling as well. There's like 3 empty bus bays there and its literally next to the subway. Its also a regional hub according to them and technically at a GO station so they cant make the excuse that its not a suitable location. Maybe its the downside of having the new Union bus terminal, but we could honestly just leave that to all intercity buses and some GO bus routes and there wouldn't be any loss overall.

Im begging you please do not add more stops I cannot sit in traffic for an extra half hour just to stop somewhere that already has decent transit connections already

 

[reaperexpress]

Really not a fan of off-peak fares. We really shouldn't be charging people extra based on when they travel.

Yes we should. It costs a rail system far more to add capacity during the peak hour than during other times, since that's the service pattern around which the tracks need to be designed. If you run 8tph peak and 2 tph off-peak your line needs to be able to support 8tph. If you can spread out demand to run 4 tph all day, you only need the infrastructure to support 4 tph, saving a lot of construction and maintenance costs.

In all of the office jobs I've ever had, people commuting by car have had wildly differing hours to avoid traffic, arriving insanely early or very late in the morning, while transit riders all showed up between 8 and 9. Because although rail transit gets more crowded, it doesn't get much slower so demand doesn't disperse the same way it does around road traffic congestion. Providing discounts outside of rush hour helps create an incentive to disperse demand around the peak periods.

Variable pricing goes a long way to making the system a lot more affordable to operate, and those savings could easily be passed on to the riders in the form of great off-peak discounts.

An alternative to official "peak" and "off-peak" prices are time-restricted discounts. For example, here in the Netherlands there is only one base ticket price, but for €5/mo you can get a NS subscription which gives you 40% off off-peak.

Or on the TTC, parking is paid on weekdays until the early afternoon, then free on evenings and weekends. So in effect if you're going to drive to the station, it's cheaper to travel outside of peak periods. This latter example would be highly effective on GO given what a large percentage of ridership drives to the station. It would also have the valuable side effect of limiting parking demand during periods when the car park is typically full.

 

[reaperexpress]

The digital platform screens should indicate the number of cars for each train. Many regional rail and metro operators include this information on their info screens, GO should do this too.

At the very least there should be announcements before each train stating how long it is, and encouraging passengers to look for corresponding markers on the platform. All they have now are occasional announcements to "look down the platform" to see how long the train is, and spread along the platform. Which accomplishes nothing because:
- by the time you can clearly count the number of coaches it's too late to move a meaningful distance down the platform
- many passengers aren't aware of the markers which indicate where a given length of train will stop.

On long trains you get very uneven passenger distribution, giving an artificially crowded feel for riders, while on short trains you have delays at stations while passengers walk to the train from the half of the platform where it didn't stop.

Here's what the platform signs look like here in the Netherlands. The train length is shown using diagrams, displaying both the number of trainsets and number of coaches per trainset. It is worth distinguishing the trainsets, because you can't walk between them and they sometimes have different destinations. In this example from The Hague Central station, the train consists of two 4-car trainsets but the rear trainset is not shown on the diagram because it has just gone out of service, since the morning rush hour is over. After the front trainset departs, the rear trainset will shunt to the layover facility next to Central station. It will spend the midday there and re-join a train during the afternoon rush. Nearly every central station in the Netherlands has large layover facilities and I've never heard of anyone being bothered by them, which is why I find it a bit hard to take the backlash over the Don Valley layover facility seriously.

 

[ShonTron]

More on the traffic chaos at the Union Station Bus Terminal last weekend:

A front row seat to Toronto’s Carmaggedon

The new Union Station Bus Terminal doesn’t work with Toronto’s weekend traffic. On Saturday, July 2, it took nearly an hour to get off the Gardiner and into the terminal.

seanmarshall.ca

 

[DirectionNorth]

More on the traffic chaos at the Union Station Bus Terminal last weekend:

A front row seat to Toronto’s Carmaggedon

The new Union Station Bus Terminal doesn’t work with Toronto’s weekend traffic. On Saturday, July 2, it took nearly an hour to get off the Gardiner and into the terminal.

seanmarshall.ca

Is there a feasible way to build dedicated lanes like the ones New York has for their PATH terminal?
New York's Lincoln Tunnel Bus Lanes

 

[reaperexpress]

Is there a feasible way to build dedicated lanes like the ones New York has for their PATH terminal?
New York's Lincoln Tunnel Bus Lanes

New York's Port Authority Bus Terminal has a massive web of elevated busways which enable a mind-boggling frequency of buses to connect to the Lincoln Tunnel.

Toronto's Union Station simply doesn't need that level of bus infrastructure. Most of the GO buses currently using Union Station will eventually be replaced by GO trains. What remains are long-distance coaches, most of which are also directly competing with VIA trains.

What we need are targeted bus priority measures such as the ones mentioned in @ShonTron 's article.

Photo by Sean Marshall, marked up by me