GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Allandale25]

GO train speeds to more than quadruple through Guelph

Move intended to 'allow for more efficient service and better on time performance,' says spokesperson

www.guelphtoday.com

 

[robmausser]

Wait.... 2030? WHAT?

It will take longer now that we are going to electrify the line. I thought that would be pretty obvious. Electrification is way more work than just laying down new trackbed and tracks.

The Liberals opting to go with Electrification from the outset was actually a bit of a false flag to defer the project to a later date. Its pretty clever. Get all the HSR and Enviro people on board, and instead of building a diesel service that could be done by 2025, and then adding electrification in 2035, they get to push the whole project back 5 more years.

First rule of government projects: never promise to build something in your current political term. "You gotta vote for us next term, or else this project won't get built/finished!"

 

[robmausser]

GO train speeds to more than quadruple through Guelph

Move intended to 'allow for more efficient service and better on time performance,' says spokesperson

www.guelphtoday.com

Only in Canada could you more than quadruple train speeds and end up at 72 km/h hahaha.

This is the biggest problem with using branch lines for passenger rail. You lose the problem of being stuck behind freight trains, but now you are just as slow because of disused, single track worn out rail.

The whole GEXR line from London to Toronto will be a great investment for transit in Ontario, but its exactly that, an investment. Going to take a lot of time and $ to get it up to Class 6 rail standards.

 

[Northern Light]

Only in Canada could you more than quadruple train speeds and end up at 72 km/h hahaha.

Actually, in fairness to us, as terrible as that is; its not uncommon in parts of the U.S., and Australia too.

Countries where freight, rather than passenger rail dominate and investment is based strictly on what pays for itself for a freight carrier.

That's not to excuse our abysmal performance in this regard in the least; only to suggest its not unique.

From showpiece to goat track: the long, dangerous decline of Sydney-to-Melbourne rail travel

Last week’s tragic derailment of an XPT passenger train was the culmination of decades of neglect

www.theguardian.com

This is the biggest problem with using branch lines for passenger rail. You lose the problem of being stuck behind freight trains, but now you are just as slow because of disused, single track worn out rail.

The whole GEXR line from London to Toronto will be a great investment for transit in Ontario, but its exactly that, an investment. Going to take a lot of time and $ to get it up to Class 6 rail standards.

Agreed.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Agreed, but it's also worth noting that London-Kitchener is slightly shorter (94 km) than Kitchener-Toronto (101 km) and quite a bit shorter than Niagara Falls-Toronto (132 km) - or (since you just mentioned it) Peterborough-Toronto (124 km)...

Right, but this service isn't Kitchener-London to be fair. It's London-Toronto, which is where all the (fair skepticism) comes from. If we go to the London Free Press website, people are talking about access to Toronto and not Kitchener. Ancedotal I know, but that's what people are hearing from the market.

 

[anb]

I think they added 30 min train service to Bramalea all day starting on Monday and i’ve seen it on many different transit apps. If this is true, this is definitely the cherry on top for an insane year on the Kitchener line overall, or London line i guess technically now.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I think they added 30 min train service to Bramalea all day starting on Monday and i’ve seen it on many different transit apps. If this is true, this is definitely the cherry on top for an insane year on the Kitchener line overall, or London line i guess technically now.

Need the other two Brampton stations but thats great. Will change the commute pattern by a lot.

 

[nfitz]

I think they added 30 min train service to Bramalea all day starting on Monday and i’ve seen it on many different transit apps. If this is true, this is definitely the cherry on top for an insane year on the Kitchener line overall, or London line i guess technically now.

That's odd. The GO Trip Planning tool says it's every 30 minutes, but the new PDF schedule (which includes London) says it's every 60 minutes.

Here's both for 11 AM departures (next Tuesday)

 

[Krypto98]

I think they added 30 min train service to Bramalea all day starting on Monday and i’ve seen it on many different transit apps. If this is true, this is definitely the cherry on top for an insane year on the Kitchener line overall, or London line i guess technically now.

The 30 minute counter peak was part of the September updates. I saw quite a few people getting off at bramalea in the morning so I wouldn't be surprised if they made it all day

 

[Urban Sky]

Funnily enough Belleville is about the same distance as London is to Toronto. I dreamed of a GO line going to maybe Coburg one day which would honestly be reasonable in the future so to see Belleville or even a long stretch, but Kingston in the mix wouldn't be as surprising anymore. Thankfully there is more than enough decent Via service going to those places and that's all we need for now.

Assuming HFR it might actually make sense IMO. There's a hell of a lot more demand on the Toronto - Kingston corridor than Kingston - Ottawa and Kingston - Montreal. Much as a I keep saying about London, something provincially driven starts to look like a reasonable approach if VIA is focusing on the end to end passengers and on a different corridor at that.

I have to admit that I was about to dismiss the idea as unrealistic, but Newcastle (pop. 10k) and Brighton (pop. 6k) might be stations which could be served by one or two peak-hour GO trains running all-stop (at least East of Oshawa) from Belleville to Toronto, allowing the commuter-hour VIA trains to just stop at Cobourg and Ottawa west of Belleville. However, I don't see GO taking over the Lakeshore service from VIA, as they would either have to serve all the way to Ottawa/Montreal or destroy connectivity between places like Belleville and Cobourg with Ottawa/Montreal...

***

Right, but this service isn't Kitchener-London to be fair. It's London-Toronto, which is where all the (fair skepticism) comes from. If we go to the London Free Press website, people are talking about access to Toronto and not Kitchener. Ancedotal I know, but that's what people are hearing from the market.

Just because a train operates four hour from-end-to-end doesn't mean it can be reasonably useful for intermediary markets and Metrolinx has made very clear that London-Toronto is not the main focus here:

Critics of four-hour London-Toronto GO trip missing big picture: Metrolinx head​

The service about to roll better connects London to other communities, says the head of the southern Ontario mass-transit super-agency overseeing the expansion.
Norman De Bono
Oct 14 2021

[...]

“If you focus constantly on the four-hour journey to Toronto, you’re getting only half the picture. There is a big part of this initiative that is about connecting London to intermediate stations,” Verster said.

That big green passenger rail car will also stop in St. Marys, Stratford, Kitchener and Guelph after departing London, he said.

Just to highlight that you can't just judge a train's utility by looking at the end-to-end travel time, there is ICE 1223, which originates in my birth city of Darmstadt every morning and terminates in Munich 8:21 hours later. However, if you wait some 2 hours longer, you can get to Munich almost 5 hours faster (i.e. in 3:32 hours), because the two cities are just 288 km ("as the crow flies") apart:

Source: Fernbahn.de timetable database


You don't have to take ICE 1223 all the way from Darmstadt to Munich to realize that this certainly isn't its purpose, but with its 22 stops, it serves 230 ([22*21/2]-1) other O-Ds (many of which with highly attractive travel times):

***

The 30 minute counter peak was part of the September updates. I saw quite a few people getting off at bramalea in the morning so I wouldn't be surprised if they made it all day

Not the 11:04 and 12:04 trains, which appeared in the screenshot @nfitz posted (here the previous schedule, effective 2021-09-04, which shows the same trains which the 2021-10-16 he posted showed):

 

[Krypto98]

I compiled the new trips from looking at Go Transit's trip planer and London extension into a schedule. The new trips/extension are dark green

 

[Urban Sky]

I compiled the new trips from looking at Go Transit's trip planer and London extension into a schedule. The new trips/extension are dark green
View attachment 356076
View attachment 356075

But that raises the question why the trains leaving Bramalea at 10:22, 11:22, 12:22, 13:22, 14:22 15:22 and 16:22 or Union at 09:04, 10:04, 11:04, 12:04, 13:04, 14:04 and 15:04 are missing in the official PDF schedule (the one which is valid as of today)...

 

[NodeGreen11]

But that raises the question why the trains leaving Bramalea at 10:22, 11:22, 12:22, 13:22, 14:22 15:22 and 16:22 or Union at 09:04, 10:04, 11:04, 12:04, 13:04, 14:04 and 15:04 are missing in the official PDF schedule (the one which is valid as of today)...

Those extra trip only appears on Oct 18-21 in the trip planner. Weird. Maybe they are running test trains but mistakenly imported them into the trip planner?

 

[Krypto98]

Those extra trip only appears on Oct 18-21 in the trip planner. Weird. Maybe they are running test trains but mistakenly imported them into the trip planner?

Perhaps it's for the New Year Schedule update, which would include the Guelph Speed upgrades as well.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I have to admit that I was about to dismiss the idea as unrealistic, but Newcastle (pop. 10k) and Brighton (pop. 6k) might be stations which could be served by one or two peak-hour GO trains running all-stop (at least East of Oshawa) from Belleville to Toronto, allowing the commuter-hour VIA trains to just stop at Cobourg and Ottawa west of Belleville. However, I don't see GO taking over the Lakeshore service from VIA, as they would either have to serve all the way to Ottawa/Montreal or destroy connectivity between places like Belleville and Cobourg with Ottawa/Montreal...

***


Just because a train operates four hour from-end-to-end doesn't mean it can be reasonably useful for intermediary markets and Metrolinx has made very clear that London-Toronto is not the main focus here:



Just to highlight that you can't just judge a train's utility by looking at the end-to-end travel time, there is ICE 1223, which originates in my birth city of Darmstadt every morning and terminates in Munich 8:21 hours later. However, if you wait some 2 hours longer, you can get to Munich almost 5 hours faster (i.e. in 3:32 hours), because the two cities are just 288 km ("as the crow flies") apart:
View attachment 356069
Source: Fernbahn.de timetable database


You don't have to take ICE 1223 all the way from Darmstadt to Munich to realize that this certainly isn't its purpose, but with its 22 stops, it serves 230 ([22*21/2]-1) other O-Ds (many of which with highly attractive travel times):
View attachment 356071

***


Not the 11:04 and 12:04 trains, which appeared in the screenshot @nfitz posted (here the previous schedule, effective 2021-09-04, which shows the same trains which the 2021-10-16 he posted showed):
View attachment 356068

I know Phil said that, I saw the prep for the conference prior to it happening. What I amsaying is that there is no guarantee the majority of users will be getting off in Kitchener from London. Most people in London want the connection to Toronto, and at the momement this is too slow. We'll see either way. If Metrolinx wants this to be intermediary focused, it must market it as such.

Nice trips of germany I hope to visit someday.