GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[innsertnamehere]

Mulock is on the EAs, and in all of the future plans. But there are no current plans to build it.

(Which seems short-sighted, I agree.)



Kingston is on a different set of tracks from Oshawa. And Uxbridge is also still held in the long-term plans, but not likely to be built for a long time.

That said, Brantford is still calling.....

Dan

Brantford is the next logical extension to me.

Uxbridge won't happen for a while as the town isn't really growing, is hemmed in by the Oak Ridges Moraine and the Greenbelt (rightfully so), and the corridor needs full reconstruction and even with that will be fairly slow due to the poor alignment of it.

Peterborough is going to be serviced by Via HFR, I don't see GO service there.

Bolton is always another option too.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Mulock is on the EAs, and in all of the future plans. But there are no current plans to build it.

(Which seems short-sighted, I agree.)



Kingston is on a different set of tracks from Oshawa. And Uxbridge is also still held in the long-term plans, but not likely to be built for a long time.

That said, Brantford is still calling.....

Dan

Hmmmm. I guess with Oshawa going over the overpass kingston will be a hike.

Brantford is the next logical extension to me.

Uxbridge won't happen for a while as the town isn't really growing, is hemmed in by the Oak Ridges Moraine and the Greenbelt (rightfully so), and the corridor needs full reconstruction and even with that will be fairly slow due to the poor alignment of it.

Peterborough is going to be serviced by Via HFR, I don't see GO service there.

Bolton is always another option too.

Here is my issue: Branford will require a diversion of lakeshore west trains. It could also be argued that Via HFR is going to London afterall.

 

[robmausser]

That would make a Windsor-Kitchener trip impossible without a transfer at London.

I don't think it make sense to eliminate that possibility.

I want there to be connections from as many places as practical, to as many others as practical, and certainly between larger urban centres in SW Ontario in this case.

The Windsor-Kitchener trip is already impossible without a transfer at London. The Kitchener train either terminates at London or Sarnia. It never goes to Windsor.

 

[robmausser]

just kill VIA service entirely on the north line and run all VIA trains through Brantford. Run semi-frequent GO service on the north line with upgraded infrastructure.

VIA would do it in about 2 hours, GO in 2:45 or so with upgraded tracks probably. Pick whether you want the premium service with speed or the slower local.

The issue with this is that VIA was proposing an HFR like service for SW Ontario like what Tor-Mon is getting.

I dont see any way they could offer this on CN's mainline.

So that only leaves the GEXR line, which is what GO is using now.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Given what's been declared possible in Brampton and for the Milton corridor, I hold out hope for frequent VIA service on the southern route. I really do see a very good case for a network structured around VIA going through Brantford exclusively with an inclination toward express service and (at most) some Metrolinx fare integration for Brantford while GO runs everything on the NML and does so more oriented toward local than end to end traffic.

 

[Nomad_87]

Either the plot thickens... or it doesn't mean anything

https://twitter.com/x/status/1438264980403630082

we'll likely not see VIA for a while, at least not until the pilot is over and when/if they make London service permanent.

 

[jamincan]

If in conjunction with Metrolinx, the Guelph Subdivision were improved so that travel times were comparable to the southern mainline, perhaps we could have future express service with Via (London-Kitchener-Toronto) and some type of local service with GO.

Schedule-wise, I've seen some times floating around, but no source for them, so I can only assume they are speculation. I personally think an extension of either the 8:02 or 8:39 departure from Kitchener makes the most sense in the morning (8:02 maybe more since it doesn't overlap as much with the later Via departure), and then an extension of the 5:28 arrival in Kitchener in the evening. This would work well for commuters from points west into Kitchener or Guelph, and would also allow for meetings and appointments to points east.

 

[Urban Sky]

just kill VIA service entirely on the north line and run all VIA trains through Brantford. Run semi-frequent GO service on the north line with upgraded infrastructure.

VIA would do it in about 2 hours, GO in 2:45 or so with upgraded tracks probably. Pick whether you want the premium service with speed or the slower local.

I would agree with you if the Brantford route was also the more reliable route. Unfortunately, only the Guelph corridor has any chance of a frequent passenger service which is undisturbed by freight railroads and their operations...

[...]

Schedule-wise, I've seen some times floating around, but no source for them, so I can only assume they are speculation. I personally think an extension of either the 8:02 or 8:39 departure from Kitchener makes the most sense in the morning (8:02 maybe more since it doesn't overlap as much with the later Via departure), and then an extension of the 5:28 arrival in Kitchener in the evening. This would work well for commuters from points west into Kitchener or Guelph, and would also allow for meetings and appointments to points east.

CTV News reports the following timings, which sound reasonably plausible to me:

The pilot project will see a train leaving from London daily at 5:20 in the morning arriving at union at 9:15 a.m. and one return train leaving Toronto at 4:19 in the afternoon arriving in London at 8:17 p.m.

 

[jamincan]

CTV News reports the following timings, which sound reasonably plausible to me:

Interesting. I did a bit of digging separately, and Metrolinx's news release states the following:

Metrolinx officials say more detailed schedule and fare information will be available closer to launch. (source)

Metrolinx also has a site up now about the extension, but it similarly has no information on schedule yet. I do think it's interesting how they frame the benefits:

Benefits​

Expanded rail service will connect Southwestern Ontario to the Region of Waterloo with direct access to the larger GO Transit network through the Kitchener corridor.


While helping to reduce congestion, service will create options to travel to and from Toronto for work or fun, with many communities to explore along the way.


For students, this means more connections to colleges and universities, including Fanshawe College, University of Guelph, Wilfred Laurier University, University of Waterloo, and Western University. (source)

 

[Krypto98]

If in conjunction with Metrolinx, the Guelph Subdivision were improved so that travel times were comparable to the southern mainline, perhaps we could have future express service with Via (London-Kitchener-Toronto) and some type of local service with GO.

Schedule-wise, I've seen some times floating around, but no source for them, so I can only assume they are speculation. I personally think an extension of either the 8:02 or 8:39 departure from Kitchener makes the most sense in the morning (8:02 maybe more since it doesn't overlap as much with the later Via departure), and then an extension of the 5:28 arrival in Kitchener in the evening. This would work well for commuters from points west into Kitchener or Guelph, and would also allow for meetings and appointments to points east.

The test train they were doing was an extension of the 5:28 pm arrival in kitchener

 

[Krypto98]

I also think maybe if possible the train could run Express after mount pleasant shaving off 20-30 minutes of trip time.

 

[Nomad_87]

Brantford is the next logical extension to me.

Uxbridge won't happen for a while as the town isn't really growing, is hemmed in by the Oak Ridges Moraine and the Greenbelt (rightfully so), and the corridor needs full reconstruction and even with that will be fairly slow due to the poor alignment of it.

Peterborough is going to be serviced by Via HFR, I don't see GO service there.

Bolton is always another option too.

I don’t think Uxbridge is that far away, though at the least I don’t see it happening until after the Stouffville Line upgrades from Union-Unionville are done

 

[DirectionNorth]

I don't think Bolton or Brantford are coming. If you look closely, most line extension (apart from Bloomington and Gormley) come on side-lines, on low-use corridors that could be acquired by GO at some point tin the future. Barrie, Kitchener, are all on little used corridors, as is our new London service.

The Milton, LSW, and LSE expansions only come after significant investment. It ain't cheap.

I think it far more likely to extend to Uxbridge next.

But hey, what do I know?

 

[Urban Sky]

I also think maybe if possible the train could run Express after mount pleasant shaving off 20-30 minutes of trip time.

The Kitchener trains already run non-stop between Union and Bramalea during rush hour. You can't remove the stops in Brampton and Bramalea, as Brampton would end up with a one-hour gap (e.g. between 08:09 and 09:09) and you would sever the transfers between Express and Local trains at Bramalea.

Besides, a train skipping a major population center like Brampton ceases to be a commuter train or anything GO could justify through its mandate...

 

[dowlingm]

In terms of what we're doing here, extending GO as more than straight replacement of pre-covid VIA to London via St. Marys and Stratford is, nominally, nonsense. The political calculation is different. I'm pasting in a map of SWO. We can see where the people are and where they are not. Talking about costs being rounding errors of what is being done in the GTAH tends to neglect that many of these communities are, population wise, rounding errors also.

Where there a plan to make St Mary's and Stratford transit-served bedroom communities for Kitchener (first) and London (later) capable of substantially filling even L6s, this might make some sense in terms of $m net spend/million passenger-km moved to transit, but that would transform those communities in a way which might (likely would) generate strong resistance from those who like things the way they are. Hell, even making London appropriately dense and transit-first generates plenty of drama. When a hard-seat 4 hour GO train is described as a "service to Toronto" it seems clear to me that there is no big picture thinking going on here, just an unpopular provincial government shoring up rural support/using up spare rolling stock/justifying work for North Bay in life extensions. If there were, the first sign of this extension would have been public discussions at Metrolinx board, not a test train.