Allandale25
Senior Member
Interesting. I wasn't aware of this specific restriction.
|
|
|
GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Krypto98
Active Member
What's the feasibility of just running the trains up to Stratford and have a bus to London? That way Go can run whatever consist they want
DirectionNorth
Senior Member
You'd be forcing a linear transfer for the biggest market of the extension, London.
It would induce extra wait times and hassle for passengers, you'd need a bus fleet out there; might as well run the GO bus straight to Kitchener, Pearson, and Union.
I think that it's likely GO will buy this corridor eventually, so they might upgrade this bridge then.
crs1026
Superstar
^A quick browse through some old documentation tells me that the whole line had a weight limit of 268,000 pounds as far back as 1978. Heavier locomotives have been known to use the line occasionally (mostly on detours, and sometimes when the old GM plant needed to do testing on new units) but any heavy car or locomotive would have had its own documentation and specific restrictions.
- Paul
- Paul
dowlingm
Senior Member
The CN rail map shows the North Main at 286K. However, as we saw with the ALP-45 derailment in Montreal Central, the track forces exerted by the trucks on an MP40 may trump the nominal weight limit.
smallspy
Senior Member
It should be noted that all of the other lines in the GTA also have that same 286k weight rating according to that map, and yet the MP40s seem to operate on them without difficulty.
For the record, the ALP-45 derailment at Central Station had to do with a poor wheel profile choice and a different truck design that was far more restrictive to turning forces than the weight of the units.
Dan
Allandale25
Senior Member
Just out of curiosity, is this the case though: "The biggest drawback to GO in London is weight restrictions in St Mary's."?
smallspy
Senior Member
I don't know. I've never heard of this restriction before - only in the railfan community.
And as Paul correctly pointed out, much heavier locomotives have operated on the line before, and in fairly recent memory too. So at first blush, it does not appear that it's strictly a weight loading issue.
Dan
Sandpit
Active Member
I think after the demise of Greyhound, GO Transit might be trying to extend the 25 to Union. A lot of riders on the 25 start/end their trip in downtown Toronto, so this will save them a transfer at Square One.
Allandale25
Senior Member
The September 9th Metrolinx Board meeting agenda and materials are now available.
Bus Services updates deck: http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20210909/20210909_BoardMtg_Bus_Services.pdf
Bus Services updates deck: http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20210909/20210909_BoardMtg_Bus_Services.pdf
crs1026
Superstar
I would say it's true from a specific narrow perspective, but taken in the bigger picture it's hyperbole.
The bridge is likely where GO trains (and VIA, for some time now) move the slowest at present. And it's a single significant cost item to rectify. But the line in its entirety needs fixing up. That single slow bridge is hardly what's impairing service..... the slow end to end speed is a bigger problem. Running slow over a single bridge is not that big a deficiency.
It may be a (hypothetical number pulled out of thin air) $10M tab to fix the bridge, but it's also $1.5-2M per mile to fix the 60ish miles of track west of Kitchener. So not the only biggest drawback, in overall cost, just possibly the biggest single line item.
- Paul
anb
Active Member
I’ve been on the first off peak 9:34 AM train to Kitchener and i’ve gotta say, things have improved a lot and it’s a lot nicer than the express bus connection. Union-Bramalea is of course the most optimized so the train breezed through without problems, and Bramalea-Georgetown wasn’t too bad either. There were slowdowns at Acton and just before Guelph but it was just a minor signal issue. Guelph-Kitchener definitely needs work but towards the end of the trip is where things picked up, traveling at 50-60km/h until we got to the platforms at Kitchener. We made it in exactly 2 hours (11:34 AM), which isn’t bad for an ‘all stops’ train, and a point in the right direction, but of course still needs some work. I’m glad we got train service every 3 hours and planning a day trip is way easier now. I’m so glad work is being done for an all day Kitchener line especially since most of the crowd on the train were post secondary students most likely heading to the universities in Waterloo. Speaking of which, the bus route 30 extension is a really nice connection if you are continuing to those destinations and beyond and now we just need to hope for weekend service.
I then took the 2:41 PM return trip back to the GTA and we started off very strong at speeds up to 80-110km/h and got almost to the Guelph border before things slowed down drastically again, now seeing the work being done on laying another track down. There were lots of passengers getting on and off at Guelph Central and that’s a very pleasing note to take in that KW-Guelph travel has drastically been improved. The bus connections are now once again reasonable, making the trip a 60-90 mins journey, which isn’t bad but definitely doesn’t beat the 15-25 mins it takes on train, which could even be brought down to 10-15 mins when all the work is finished. Anyways when leaving Guelph, we picked back up at that same 80-110km/h range, and it felt consistent even through a minor stop at Acton. At Georgetown there’s another slowdown approaching its station but it isn’t so bad compared to the Guelph one earlier. From there, as we head into Brampton/Toronto it obviously became easier to maintain the consistent speeds even as the peak trains make its way in the opposite direction. Out of all the service changes we got, this is definitely the best one by far but that could change as i experience the changes on other train lines.
I then took the 2:41 PM return trip back to the GTA and we started off very strong at speeds up to 80-110km/h and got almost to the Guelph border before things slowed down drastically again, now seeing the work being done on laying another track down. There were lots of passengers getting on and off at Guelph Central and that’s a very pleasing note to take in that KW-Guelph travel has drastically been improved. The bus connections are now once again reasonable, making the trip a 60-90 mins journey, which isn’t bad but definitely doesn’t beat the 15-25 mins it takes on train, which could even be brought down to 10-15 mins when all the work is finished. Anyways when leaving Guelph, we picked back up at that same 80-110km/h range, and it felt consistent even through a minor stop at Acton. At Georgetown there’s another slowdown approaching its station but it isn’t so bad compared to the Guelph one earlier. From there, as we head into Brampton/Toronto it obviously became easier to maintain the consistent speeds even as the peak trains make its way in the opposite direction. Out of all the service changes we got, this is definitely the best one by far but that could change as i experience the changes on other train lines.
superelevation
Active Member
Honestly, if it weren’t CP I think it would happen. The tunnel will be expensive but surely even with our ridiculous prices a billion or two? Seems like even that would be a justifiable price for trains into the heart of the city,
tsm1072
Active Member
The question is whether that money could be better spent. Hamilton GO is always going to be the end of that line, compared to West Harbour, which is an intermediate stop on a longer line. A complete shoot from the hip, for the cost of that tunnel upgrade, you could:
- Build the dedicated trackage for frequent service to Stoney creek
- Add a station at Ottawa Street
- Upgrade bus service on Barton
- Extend the LRT down James St to connect to West Harbour
reaperexpress
Senior Member
The tunnel is a 570m stretch of cut-and-cover under a public street, so probably a fair bit less than a billion. The going rate for bored subway projects is about $300M per km including stations, and cut and cover is generally cheaper than bored. So surely just raising the corners of the roof of the tunnel would cost less than $300M.
The off-peak express service will need to remain at West Harbour in order to continue into Niagara, but it would be nice to have, for example, two local trains per hour terminating at Hamilton Centre.