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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

^VIA has run special high-end charters to Stratford in past years. The challenge is the first mile - last mile logistics. Niagara has a well developed local transit operator, Stratford would be challenged to move a trainload of folks to the theatres.
Might work for matinees, where people might accept a more liesurely outing, but evening shows would be more of a challenge thanks to the late hour of return. The theatre might have better data on where their shows draw from, but I can see a lot of theatre goers not wanting to head to Union - Bramalea, on the other hand, woukd be a great place to catch the train from.

- Paul
To the best of my knowledge, those charters were planned and operated by outfits that specialize in this kind of thing elsewhere, that cater to a specific target market, and have done very, very well here. Tickets were only available to subscribers, and the outfits also chartered buses to get the patrons to the theatres.

As far as I know, VIA is anxious to deal with them again.

Dan
 
To the best of my knowledge, those charters were planned and operated by outfits that specialize in this kind of thing elsewhere, that cater to a specific target market, and have done very, very well here. Tickets were only available to subscribers, and the outfits also chartered buses to get the patrons to the theatres.

As far as I know, VIA is anxious to deal with them again.

Dan

That’s a more effective way to package things than just running a GO train and hoping people find it convenient. That clientele is willing to pay a couple hundred dollars or more per person per event. It’s easy to hide a $10 chartered shuttle bus per-seat cost in an all-inclusive ticket that includes rail, theatre, shuttle, and (yes) champagne reception at Union Station.

- Paul
 
Stratford's train station is actually fairly well located on the whole. It's just on the edge of downtown, and only a block away from it's main transit terminal (though the 30min service is pretty poor). Frankly, though, assuming you are reasonably mobile, it's probably just easier to walk to your destination - I think the Festival Theatre is the worst case at about 1.5 km from the train station.
 
My take on the announcement yesterday from the federal government.

^Lots of good ideas and insights. Just don't let your enthusiasm get in the way of understanding how little forward ground was actually gained by yesterday's announcement.

A major constraint on the capacity of the Galt Sub, even without any track addition, is the number and location of level crossings through Mississauga and Halton. While it would appear that CP has more than enough capacity to absorb more GO trains, any operating pattern that involves meeting or passing freight trains is highly constrained. There are just enough busy level crossings that it's very difficult to find a place for a freight train to slow or hold without blocking road traffic. That's likely why CP may be so reluctant to allow any bidirectional service....they need an assured through route to keep freights moving. Grade separations are as important as the track itself on this line, maybe more,

CP has accepted close headways for those 10-11 unidirectional trains (including the impact on the crossing of these trains from north to south en route) so they have definitely cooperated with GO to get as much value as possible out of the existing line. But they aren't a charity and can only take so much of a hit for commuters.

A second constraint is the location of major river crossings - which in combination with the grade separation drives up the cost of adding track significantly.

I disagree that getting to hourly 2WAD would be a big enough step forward to be worthwhile. That's because the competing routes (the ones people use today, due to there being no 2WAD on the Milton line) are likely to retain riders who experience/anticipate/fear a 45 minute wait for the next hourly train. Getting service to 30 minutes or better has to be a goal from the beginning. Spending $x00M to get hourly service may be poor use of capital whereas spending more to get more frequent headways is a very compelling proposition.

It's all doable with money - we just need to realise that both Ontario and Ottawa have other major expenses under way and not everything can happen at once. As important as the Milton line is, given its high cost, had it been included in GO Expansion's first wave, some other things would have been left out. Having spent $1.5B on Georgetown South it's understandable that other parts of the GTA are getting the focus in the current expansion program.

I don't get very excited about Ministerial announcements of what we might do in another decade. My kids may get to ride 2WAD to Milton, but at best I may be bringing my walker.

- Paul
 
^Lots of good ideas and insights. Just don't let your enthusiasm get in the way of understanding how little forward ground was actually gained by yesterday's announcement.

A major constraint on the capacity of the Galt Sub, even without any track addition, is the number and location of level crossings through Mississauga and Halton. While it would appear that CP has more than enough capacity to absorb more GO trains, any operating pattern that involves meeting or passing freight trains is highly constrained. There are just enough busy level crossings that it's very difficult to find a place for a freight train to slow or hold without blocking road traffic. That's likely why CP may be so reluctant to allow any bidirectional service....they need an assured through route to keep freights moving. Grade separations are as important as the track itself on this line, maybe more,

CP has accepted close headways for those 10-11 unidirectional trains (including the impact on the crossing of these trains from north to south en route) so they have definitely cooperated with GO to get as much value as possible out of the existing line. But they aren't a charity and can only take so much of a hit for commuters.

A second constraint is the location of major river crossings - which in combination with the grade separation drives up the cost of adding track significantly.

I disagree that getting to hourly 2WAD would be a big enough step forward to be worthwhile. That's because the competing routes (the ones people use today, due to there being no 2WAD on the Milton line) are likely to retain riders who experience/anticipate/fear a 45 minute wait for the next hourly train. Getting service to 30 minutes or better has to be a goal from the beginning. Spending $x00M to get hourly service may be poor use of capital whereas spending more to get more frequent headways is a very compelling proposition.

It's all doable with money - we just need to realise that both Ontario and Ottawa have other major expenses under way and not everything can happen at once. As important as the Milton line is, given its high cost, had it been included in GO Expansion's first wave, some other things would have been left out. Having spent $1.5B on Georgetown South it's understandable that other parts of the GTA are getting the focus in the current expansion program.

I don't get very excited about Ministerial announcements of what we might do in another decade. My kids may get to ride 2WAD to Milton, but at best I may be bringing my walker.

- Paul
I agree with most of this post, except the part about the need for more than hourly service. Its important to remember that when you have headways beyond 15 minutes, nobody just shows up to a train station whenever and waits for the next train, hoping that its not an hour away. People carefully plan around how they're going to get from Point A to Point B, and many circumstances it can be quite reasonable to have to delay the start time of your trip in order to catch a train that gets you to where you need to go much faster. Looking at the Milton Corridor, while many that live in South-Eastern Mississauga would be able to easily reach LSE even if Milton is closer, for those who live elsewhere like in Streetsville or Erindale, it could require them to travel as much as an additional 8km to reach LSW, and require several additional bus transfers which can easily add 20+ minutes to your travel time. At this point many - especially those who live a 10 min walk to Milton would just pull up Google Maps - check when the next train is coming, and just leave 10-15 minutes before departure time, bonus points if there is a bus route that leads directly to the station cutting travel down to 3 mins.

Speaking personally, even though I live quite close to the Yonge Corridor and could easily catch frequent bus+subway services to get downtown, the hourly service on the Barrie Line has been of huge help to me ever since it opened simply because it allows me to reach downtown significantly faster than before, and having to plan my trip around the schedule really is only a minor setback, and I have no reason to doubt that the same can't apply to those living in Mississauga.
 
I know the August service changes just kicked in, but does anyone want to make any bets on the September service changes? More net new services? the re-introduction of express services on the Lake Shore lines? A GO train to London?
 

I'll bring that forward:

1628711764381.png
 
What do you mean? That's the same tweet.

Some people don't see Twitter Previews here in UT (including me); and many choose not to click through.

So I took a screenshot and posted it, so everyone can see it w/o the need to click through.
 
Some people don't see Twitter Previews here in UT (including me); and many choose not to click through.

So I took a screenshot and posted it, so everyone can see it w/o the need to click through.
I hadn't realised some browsers don't do it automatically!

If you do print screen it, you should link the image as well. Annoying when someone pastes a tweet, and then you can't look at responses easily.
 
I know the August service changes just kicked in, but does anyone want to make any bets on the September service changes? More net new services? the re-introduction of express services on the Lake Shore lines? A GO train to London?
Decent Weekend service on the Kitchener Line is all I ask. I’m not expecting all day but say at least 2 trains from Kitchener in the morning and 2 back would be nice. Run hourly service to BramBefore the pandemic VIA would be sold out by Guelph and as there’s no standing room you’re SOL.
I’ve emailed Metrolinx and no response yet.
Good news is that the bridge rehabilitation over the Speed River is in full swing.
 
Unless another shelter has popped up, there has been a 'GO-style' bike shelter at the London VIA Station since at least 2015 according to Google Streetview.

Nothing to see here, I guess.

Good catch; didn't occur to me to look further into that.

That said, I don't think that discounts the impending arrival of GO in London.

I think its about the details now, what level of service, initially, and how soon.
 

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