Allandale25
Senior Member
^ Good point. Since Family Day is in February in the winter I guess even with covid-19 lots of people wanted to get out during the summer on the long weekend.
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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Interesting that ridership is still at a 90% drop in Ontario. Here in the Netherlands there was also a >90% drop in ridership in March, and they massively slashed train service. My line (Rotterdam - The Hague) dropped from 10 trains per hour to 2, for example.
Then they reinstated the pre-Covid schedules a few months ago and ridership has picked up again since. The more recent counts show ridership at around 40% of what it was (which is actually ideal for the moment, because everyone can keep a seat apart, but there aren't too many empty pairs). I wonder how much of the discrepancy between Ontario and the Netherlands is due to cultural differences, differences in trip types, and how much is simply due to the reduced service. The rate of infections seems similar in both places.
In any case, I suspect there will be a permanent decrease in the traditional 9-to-5 commuter ridership as literally everyone in an office job has now been set up to work from home. I expect that many companies will take the opportunity to downsize their physical offices and have employees physically commute only a couple days per week.
Of course this is a major threat to GO, whose core money-maker has always been park-and-ride commuters to the financial district. But the upside is that the GO Rail transformation already underway will already help GO adapt to the changing travel patterns, which will have a less-pronounced peak period. It might just mean that we don't need to run as many peak-period extras to suppelement the all-day two-way base service pattern. Those extra trains are relatively expensive to operate since they are owned/stored/maintained just to run one or maybe two round trips per day. Reducing the peak-period spike could also bring some savings in infrastructure since we woulnd't need to build as much capacity that is unnecessary for rest of the day.
In the Netherlands, there is surprisingly little extra service at rush hour. There are some local lines which jump from 2 tph to 4, or 4 to 6, but overall it's not a huge difference. For example, the 10 trains per hour between Rotterdam and The Hague is both the peak and off-peak service pattern. Demand is instead managed using peak-period pricing (regular riders can get 40% off outside of peak periods), and changing the train length. Intercity lines tend to run 10- or 12-car bilevels at rush hour (pairs of 4-car and 6-car bilevel EMU sets), but off peak, you often see individual EMUs of 4 or 6 cars. Around 09:00 you often see destination signs with a message warning passengers that the rear half of the train goes no further than [x]. The rear unit is simply uncoupled during a regular station stop and taken to a layover yard nearby.
Then they reinstated the pre-Covid schedules a few months ago and ridership has picked up again since. The more recent counts show ridership at around 40% of what it was (which is actually ideal for the moment, because everyone can keep a seat apart, but there aren't too many empty pairs). I wonder how much of the discrepancy between Ontario and the Netherlands is due to cultural differences, differences in trip types, and how much is simply due to the reduced service. The rate of infections seems similar in both places.
In any case, I suspect there will be a permanent decrease in the traditional 9-to-5 commuter ridership as literally everyone in an office job has now been set up to work from home. I expect that many companies will take the opportunity to downsize their physical offices and have employees physically commute only a couple days per week.
Of course this is a major threat to GO, whose core money-maker has always been park-and-ride commuters to the financial district. But the upside is that the GO Rail transformation already underway will already help GO adapt to the changing travel patterns, which will have a less-pronounced peak period. It might just mean that we don't need to run as many peak-period extras to suppelement the all-day two-way base service pattern. Those extra trains are relatively expensive to operate since they are owned/stored/maintained just to run one or maybe two round trips per day. Reducing the peak-period spike could also bring some savings in infrastructure since we woulnd't need to build as much capacity that is unnecessary for rest of the day.
In the Netherlands, there is surprisingly little extra service at rush hour. There are some local lines which jump from 2 tph to 4, or 4 to 6, but overall it's not a huge difference. For example, the 10 trains per hour between Rotterdam and The Hague is both the peak and off-peak service pattern. Demand is instead managed using peak-period pricing (regular riders can get 40% off outside of peak periods), and changing the train length. Intercity lines tend to run 10- or 12-car bilevels at rush hour (pairs of 4-car and 6-car bilevel EMU sets), but off peak, you often see individual EMUs of 4 or 6 cars. Around 09:00 you often see destination signs with a message warning passengers that the rear half of the train goes no further than [x]. The rear unit is simply uncoupled during a regular station stop and taken to a layover yard nearby.
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Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Peak period express trains are also a problem when they disrupt standard operations. In my case, my ideal daily trip is between oshawa and danforth stations. The 6:55 (15 min peak service train) and 7:10 (standard half hourly train) used to run express after Pickering making them useless too me unless I'm willing to back track from union. The afternoons were the same with an hour gap between trains at danforth (4:41 And 5:41. With the 5:41 terminating at Pickering anyway)
Express trains should be in addition to not a replacement of the standard operations.
Express trains should be in addition to not a replacement of the standard operations.
Northern Light
Superstar
Agreed...........but hold on..............there's a Woodbridge Heights in Oshawa?
Krypto98
Active Member
I must have gotten the eastbound and westbound trip times confused giving me 4 minutes savings vs 1 minutes
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
I moved to the 'shwa recently. Was in Woodbridge when I createď this profile many years ago
smallspy
Senior Member
They account for that in the 3 minute dwell, should it be needed. Just like how GO accounts for the wheelchair loading ramp to be deployed in their scheduled dwell.
So, funny story about that.....
Up to about 20mph, a GO train will out-accelerate a VIA train due to its lower gearing and higher tractive effort. And if the GO train is using an MP40 the acceleration curve is going to be pretty similar up to about 35mph due to the additional horsepower available. Only past that point will the lower weight and rolling resistance of the VIA train really become an advantage.
The other issue at play is the different way that the two agencies create their schedules. The "time advantage" that you see on the schedules when you're comparing a VIA and a Lakeshore express train, for instance, has more to do with the fact that GO pads their schedules at the ends of their runs or coming into Union Station, rather than adding the padding at the intermediate stations as VIA does.
In fairness, it is really only GO that is still suffering from the huge drop in ridership. Most of the local transit agencies have seen rebounds closer to what has been witnessed in the Netherlands.
Dan
NY99
Active Member
It’s interesting, the TTC reported that ridership has recovered to around 35% pre-pandemic levels, last I checked. So that tracks well with what the Netherlands is seeing. It just goes to show how 9-5-oriented GO’s business model has been, something Metrolinx is trying to get away from.
anb
Active Member
GO is about 35% commuter and 65% regular service now. This is thanks to the lakeshore, kitchener, barrie and stouffville lines having all day service, with addition to the whole 407 and 401 (adapted from all the train corridors) of buses. As well as the many other secondary buses in a train corridor that runs all day frequently. Yes the 9-5 focus still does exist and this is thanks to the milton and RH lines not getting a rer conversion but in the end of all this, we could be seeing a 25-75 or even a 20-80 happen
TransitBart
Senior Member
I just saw the GO bear on TVO. Funny ad.
TRONto
Active Member
For those thinking that this work from home would be permanent. It's already reversing.
awealthofcommonsense.com
Just as with any other major event, things in our day to day are mostly going to change on the margin after COVID is done. Those office towers will be full again in a couple years. The Ontario government already asked all their office workers to return to work.
GO will hit their usual ridership numbers probably by the end of next year barring anything else unusual jumping out of the woodwork.
The Work From Home Backlash is Upon Us - A Wealth of Common Sense
Why there was bound to be pushback to the work from home trend.
awealthofcommonsense.com
Just as with any other major event, things in our day to day are mostly going to change on the margin after COVID is done. Those office towers will be full again in a couple years. The Ontario government already asked all their office workers to return to work.
GO will hit their usual ridership numbers probably by the end of next year barring anything else unusual jumping out of the woodwork.
Northern Light
Superstar
Full Wi-Fi on all GO Buses starting today; and 1/2 of all trains, roll out to all trains by early 2021.
news.ontario.ca
From the release:
Ontario Newsroom
news.ontario.ca
From the release:
LNahid2000
Senior Member
lol 10MB? What is even the point?
nfitz
Superstar
50 MB with a registered Presto card ... and who wouldn't have one of those?
I seldom eat through more than 50 MB of data during a transit trip, according to the Rogers bills I see. Should be able to just about anything except stream video.
Northern Light
Superstar
Lots of people haven't registered their Presto. The card is pretty ubiquitous at this point, especially on GO; but its a long way to go for 100% registration; here's an incentive trying to change that.
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