GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[crs1026]

I agree. He looked like a scared sheep in the Global News interview. One almost has to wonder of someone(s) at Metrolinx purposely set this up as a lesson for him?
https://globalnews.ca/news/4834948/ontario-metrolinx-overcrowded-go-trains-kitchener/
(clarification: Yurek interview not at this link, I'll try and re-find it and post later, was watching it earlier)

I continue to hold a conspiracy theory that Verster and/or ML brass may have attempted a couple of “quick wins” that would provide photo ops and ingratiate the Minister to GO. If so, this one blew up on them.

Reviewing links to find the Yurek comments, tripped across this CTV one with some scathing comments on the "cancelled" K/W "express" that I didn't know had existed prior.

Correct or not, this actually has Yurek "blaming Metrolinx for lack of planning"...lol. Captain Petard hangs himself...'Make it sew'
https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/problems-continue-for-kitchener-go-train-commuters-1.4248890

What the F was Yurek thinking? That fairy dust comes from brake shoes? A lot more is going to go wrong for him shortly...

The comments I get from insiders lead me to believe that ML indeed is light on rail service planning capability. Some people with good credentials in things like bus service planning, and some good brains but not savy enough of rail operations. The urge to tinker with timings is what turned this one inside out. I wonder whose idea that was. I doubt the Minister even knew about that.

I really do worry that this may harm the whole push for better GO service. Already we have Patrick Brown stirring the pot, and his comments are no more insightful or constructive than the Minister’s (It bothers me that one of the key hurdles for the deal with CN may be agreeing on what has to be done to add track in central Brampton..... and Brown holds the levers that could kill or impede that)

Much as I otherwise want Ford to fail and be gone, I have to hope that he succeeds with GO. Angry riders and voters, and bad press, force government into quick-fix mentality, when the solution to GO is sustained investment. If Yurek’s trust in GO just took a plunge, he and his Cabinet may stay away from the whole topic. That’s not a step forward.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

The bigger issue is with the freight railroads. There is usually many weeks and months of discussions required in order to allow the schedules to change, and that's also dependent on how the modelling works out.

And needless to say, we'll see how this 'new arrangement' with CN works out, where magically and beyond prior logic and discussion, 'the need for the Freight Bypass is deemed moot' for all day two way.

Looks like Yurek is off on the right fit...errr....foot.

 

[steveintoronto]

The urge to tinker with timings is what turned this one inside out. I wonder whose idea that was. I doubt the Minister even knew about that.

I may disagree on details, but agree with the gist, and that includes 'conspiracy'. This certainly doesn't bode well, and in fairness to Yurek and to buttress your point on 'poor planning abilities', this is far from the first time Metrolinx botched up this badly, if not worse. The platform fiasco a few years back was from the same folks. In all fairness to ML, they might be dependent on outsourcing planning of this type. There's a damn good story there somewhere.

If Yurek’s trust in GO just took a plunge, he and his Cabinet may stay away from the whole topic.

If there is a 'conspiracy' afoot, it might be to do exactly that. I've watched a number of stories on it now, and in each one, AMA came out the diplomat, and Yurek the incompetent master.

Yurek insists on being Little Jack Horner, sticking his finger into the pie to pull out plums...while putting nothing in to start with. He got caught trying to be too clever, and it looks good on him.

Now perhaps the discussion on the Freight Bypass, (and far better the Missing Link) can begin again in earnest. It's well past time for the province, this and the previous regime, to approach the Feds to look how to finance and arrange this. It's not a dead 'cost'. It's an investment. One that will save vast amounts over the longer term.

 

[TOareaFan]

The way that the train cycling and crewing works on GO, going back to the old schedule may require them to change the schedules elsewhere in the system as well.

I get what you are saying....and I previously would have accepted this explanation without question.....but the changes that were made that seem to be causing the problem were made just this week...in isolation (ie with no other changes to other schedules except the addition of the daily train to Niagara) so it would seem that turning back the clock one week could be achieved in a similar fashion.

Because that would involve the PCs admitting they royally F***ed up.

As noted elsewhere, I doubt the government had any involvement in the timing changes.......it was likely someone in ops saying "while we are extending that extra train, this might be a good time to smooth out the gaps in timing".....

...but, whoever made the mistake....I can see what they were thinking and do not think it was done out of malice....just misjudgment....and I think they would gain a lot of respect and goodwill by saying today "sorry, we got that wrong and we are going back to what we had last week but except we will keep the one train extension to KW"

 

[smallspy]

And needless to say, we'll see how this 'new arrangement' with CN works out, where magically and beyond prior logic and discussion, 'the need for the Freight Bypass is deemed moot' for all day two way.

Any change to the arrangements between CN management and the Ontario Government aren't going to change what has to happen on the ground. Those discussions still need to happen, as does the modelling.

If the modelling shows that a schedule change or even tweak will result in delays to any of a bunch of certain freights - the "key trains" - than no amount of political goodwill is going to get CN to approve the change.

I get what you are saying....and I previously would have accepted this explanation without question.....but the changes that were made that seem to be causing the problem were made just this week...in isolation (ie with no other changes to other schedules except the addition of the daily train to Niagara) so it would seem that turning back the clock one week could be achieved in a similar fashion.

You're also assuming that the crewing requirements didn't change with the change in the way the trains were scheduled - I can assure that they most certainly did. For instance, I think that only one of those Kitchener trains in the current schedule has a crew that begins and ends their day in Kitchener. None of the others do, because doing so may put their daily hours-of-service at risk of going over the Federally regulated rules in the event of even the slightest delay.

Even slight schedule changes can result in wholesale changes to the way that trains are crewed.

Dan

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

I think this is first official mentioning of the Regional Express Rail name being changed to GO Expansion:

Under the GO expansion program, which was formerly known as regional express rail, Metrolinx plans to add more two-way, all-day service, run trains every 15 minutes or sooner, and electrify some of its rail lines. As today, the vast majority of all trips will start or end at Union.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ing-union-stations-go-transit-efficiency.html

 

[TOareaFan]

You're also assuming that the crewing requirements didn't change with the change in the way the trains were scheduled

You are giving me way to much credit for thinking it through in detail....all I was assuming was "that which was doable last week....is likely still possible this week"

 

[raptor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1083837454145204226

 

[Northern Light]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1083837454145204226

Post says that as of TODAY (Minister Yurek's emphasis) they had added 2 coaches to 2 different runs the 5:02, and 5:27

A fine start, and unrealistic to expect more change, yet.

But it seems fairly clear people will be mollified by nothing less than an additional departure, at or before 4:55pm.

There is also a very clear preference for said additional departure to be an express.

Whether that can be arranged quickly remains to be seen.

 

[Allandale25]

Post says that as of TODAY (Minister Yurek's emphasis) they had added 2 coaches to 2 different runs the 5:02, and 5:27

A fine start, and unrealistic to expect more change, yet.

But it seems fairly clear people will be mollified by nothing less than additional departure, at or before 4:55pm.

There is also a very clear preference for said additional departure to be an express.

Whether that can be arranged quickly remains to be seen.

And maybe showing how rapidly this situation is happening, here's a reply tweet from the GO Transit account at 3:29PM today. The minister's tweet was at 4:36PM.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1083823231029690370

 

[TOareaFan]

If we are correct that the timing shift has moved people off of the 4:35 (former 4:50 express) onto the 5:02 and 5:27 trains.....having extra seats sure seems a good response....and kudos to all involved for getting to it so quickly.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1083837454145204226

OMG, and I thought saying "we added a train and increased serve by x%" was getting ridiculous, they're backpatting themselves with coaches being added to existing trains?!

I don't know whether tweeting this stuff is better or worse than press conferences for Tim's at GO stations.

 

[cbrown2009]

OMG, and I thought saying "we added a train and increased serve by x%" was getting ridiculous, they're backpatting themselves with coaches being added to existing trains?!

I don't know whether tweeting this stuff is better or worse than press conferences for Tim's at GO stations.

Given the crowding we were seeing this week, I think it’s worth a tweet at least. Maybe less backpatting, just a short term solution to a noted problem.
More announcement/press conference worthy would be how we would get more than hourly evening and weekend service and more daily service to Kitchener without the bypass.

 

[TOareaFan]

Given the crowding we were seeing this week, I think it’s worth a tweet at least. Maybe less backpatting, just a short term solution to a noted problem.
More announcement/press conference worthy would be how we would get more than hourly evening and weekend service and more daily service to Kitchener without the bypass.

Honestly, and I hope this does not come off as petty (because it is not intended to be) but perhaps the lesson this week is a bit less focus on getting more trains to Kitchener (where ridership is currently low) and pay a bit more attention to the 3 (4 if you count Malton) stations in Brampton that produce the vast majority of ridership on the line.

This whole mess this week seems to have flowed out of a well intended change to try and serve Kitchener with more trains. The unintended consequence was what appears to be (in hindsight) a very significant shift in the commute patterns of the bulk of the riders on the line.

Nothing wrong (in fact a whole lot right) about the goal of getting more service to Kitchener...but it can't be done at the expense of the current majority of the riders on the line.

 

[nfitz]

This whole mess this week seems to have flowed out of a well intended change to try and serve Kitchener with more trains. The unintended consequence was what appears to be (in hindsight) a very significant shift in the commute patterns of the bulk of the riders on the line.

This has very little or nothing to do with extending a single train to Kitchener, or adding 3 stoops to an express.

It's all about reducing the number of trains at the peak time.

The old departure times were 4:20, 4:50, 5:02, 5:20 and 5:50. So at the peak between 4:50 and 5:20 were 3 trains.

Those 5 trains were moved to 4:04, 4:35, 5:02, 5:27, and 6:00

So instead of 3 trains in a 30-minute period, there are now 2 trains in a 30 minute period>

Everyone on the 5:02 is still on the 5:02. But many who would be the 4:50, won't be able to get there in time for the 4:35, so are on the 5:02.

And to add insult to injury, the 5:27 is now 7 minutes later, meaning that it's got more people as well.