Northern Light
Superstar
Ok I volunteer to ask the dumb question. Why not ship the GO car down to T.O via the CP tracks?
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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
CodeMonkey
Active Member
Wild guess, but judging by that photo its a older GO Car so it may be headed to get rebuilt or scraped.
Most of the lines with the exception of two(CP, GO Sub) are CN tracks, so its probably cheaper to just get one CN cargo train to ship it down to Toronto than it is to have CP then CN to ship it.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
GO's Mimico Yard and Bombardier are both on the CN line. It was probably cheaper.
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drum118
Superstar
Yes until it decided to use EMU's or not.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
GO trains to get clean diesel engines in 2017
Metrolinx vows to make all of its trains Tier 4 compliant, a tough new emissions standard set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, with diesel despite plans to electrify fleet
Brodie Fenlon
Toronto — Globe and Mail Update
Published on Wednesday, Oct. 21, 2009 12:23AM EDT
Last updated on Wednesday, Oct. 21, 2009 11:18AM EDT
Metrolinx says the engines on its entire fleet of GO Train locomotives will be rebuilt beginning in 2017 with state-of-the-art clean diesel technology, even as it embarks on a major study of the electrification of its entire system.
It's the first time the province's Toronto transportation agency has said publicly that it intends to make all of its trains Tier 4 compliant, a tough new emissions standard set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for new trains built after 2015.
A recent Metrolinx environmental assessment of the Georgetown South GO expansion and Union-Pearson rail link was predicated on the use of existing Tier 2 locomotives. It projected, in a worst-case scenario, acute health effects for residents along the line from diesel exhaust.
Ontario Environment Minister John Gerretsen approved the expansion – which will see traffic ramp up from 49 to 464 trains daily on the lower half of the corridor by 2031 – as long as the air link and Georgetown GO service use Tier 4 trains.
But Gary McNeil, executive vice-president of Metrolinx and managing director of GO Transit, said the agency will go a significant step farther by converting its entire fleet.
“Around 2017, we're going to have to rebuild our engines, and at that time they'll be rebuilt to Tier 4 technology,†he said. “So we're looking, in the very short term, [at] our entire fleet being Tier 4 compatible as far as the emissions are concerned.â€
Mr. McNeil also suggested the number of trains on the expanded Georgetown line will be significantly lower than Metrolinx's own projections in its environmental assessment.
“If I was to look at a crystal ball, I'd say we're probably looking at about 10 more trains in 2015. So it's a gradual increase of service,†he said.
The Clean Train Coalition, which wants the Georgetown corridor electrified, said they're bewildered by Mr. McNeil's statements.
The environmental assessment talks about “a six-fold increase [in train traffic] on Day 1. Now he's saying they're just going to slowly ramp up service. This is news to us,†said the coalition's Keith Brooks.
“This idea that all trains from now on are going to be Tier 4, this is also news to us. … What we're talking about and what he's talking about don't seem to be the same thing.â€
The Metrolinx board approved Tuesday a major one-year study of electrification, which will include a cost-benefit analysis, detailed environmental and health assessments and recommendations about how – and if – the diesel railway should be electrified.
Metrolinx vows to make all of its trains Tier 4 compliant, a tough new emissions standard set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, with diesel despite plans to electrify fleet
Brodie Fenlon
Toronto — Globe and Mail Update
Published on Wednesday, Oct. 21, 2009 12:23AM EDT
Last updated on Wednesday, Oct. 21, 2009 11:18AM EDT
Metrolinx says the engines on its entire fleet of GO Train locomotives will be rebuilt beginning in 2017 with state-of-the-art clean diesel technology, even as it embarks on a major study of the electrification of its entire system.
It's the first time the province's Toronto transportation agency has said publicly that it intends to make all of its trains Tier 4 compliant, a tough new emissions standard set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for new trains built after 2015.
A recent Metrolinx environmental assessment of the Georgetown South GO expansion and Union-Pearson rail link was predicated on the use of existing Tier 2 locomotives. It projected, in a worst-case scenario, acute health effects for residents along the line from diesel exhaust.
Ontario Environment Minister John Gerretsen approved the expansion – which will see traffic ramp up from 49 to 464 trains daily on the lower half of the corridor by 2031 – as long as the air link and Georgetown GO service use Tier 4 trains.
But Gary McNeil, executive vice-president of Metrolinx and managing director of GO Transit, said the agency will go a significant step farther by converting its entire fleet.
“Around 2017, we're going to have to rebuild our engines, and at that time they'll be rebuilt to Tier 4 technology,†he said. “So we're looking, in the very short term, [at] our entire fleet being Tier 4 compatible as far as the emissions are concerned.â€
Mr. McNeil also suggested the number of trains on the expanded Georgetown line will be significantly lower than Metrolinx's own projections in its environmental assessment.
“If I was to look at a crystal ball, I'd say we're probably looking at about 10 more trains in 2015. So it's a gradual increase of service,†he said.
The Clean Train Coalition, which wants the Georgetown corridor electrified, said they're bewildered by Mr. McNeil's statements.
The environmental assessment talks about “a six-fold increase [in train traffic] on Day 1. Now he's saying they're just going to slowly ramp up service. This is news to us,†said the coalition's Keith Brooks.
“This idea that all trains from now on are going to be Tier 4, this is also news to us. … What we're talking about and what he's talking about don't seem to be the same thing.â€
The Metrolinx board approved Tuesday a major one-year study of electrification, which will include a cost-benefit analysis, detailed environmental and health assessments and recommendations about how – and if – the diesel railway should be electrified.
doady
Senior Member
Clean deisel by 2017, and maybe ten new trains by 2015. Now that is progress.
Perhaps by 2117 they will get electrification and all-day service.
Perhaps by 2117 they will get electrification and all-day service.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Why the hell would they start introducing new diesel stock in 2017 when there's an obvious case for electrification?! By that time, they could be well into electrification of the entire system, and then they won't have to worry about buying new vehicles again.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
It would appear that one floor of Waterpark Place isn't talking to the other very well. Seriously, though, they're supposed to be one organization. They need to have one consistent message and one consistent spokesperson. Metrolinx is planning hundreds of extra trains in 2015. Gary McNeil is planning 10. Which is it?
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
The entire network would likely not be electrified. I'm not close to the railways but Milton, Barrie and Bradford are lines that I can see become electrified for the majority of the route but the outer reaches of which (areas that would likely only have only peak service) would not be economical to electrify. Either GO runs diesel (which any new vehicles should be Tier 4) or the run dual mode (which should still be Tier 4 on the diesel side)
Platform 27
Active Member
Read the article again: that's not a date that they're introducing new stock, it's the date that part of the diesel fleet is scheduled for a mid-life engine rebuild.
10 = new trains on *Georgetown line* by 2015
100s = total trains on southernmost chunk of Weston subdivision in 2040-something, summing all Milton, Georgetown, Bolton, Barrie and UPRL trips.
doady
Senior Member
GO is just trying to stay within their comfort zone I guess. You have to remember GO is a very successful system, financially, and there is very little incentive for change. Electrification and frequent all-day service would turn GO's whole world upside down.
After all, there are so many parking spaces you can be provided and the local roads can only be widened so much. GO's business model will suddenly become unsustainable and GO will have to transform into a system that promotes urbanism and intensification and local transit. One could argue that the tipping point has already been reached, so I have no doubt it will happen eventually, though I doubt it will happen in any of our lifetimes. GO will be dragged kicked into the new millennium kicking and screaming.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
EDIT:
I disagree. All the lines have enormous potential for electrification, especially since they're all slated to have all day service by 2020 (I think even the Milton Line,) which'll get as low as 15 minute frequencies by 2031. All the lines should definitely be electrified by 2031, and they should start soon to reap the benefits of electrification as early as possible.Woodbridge_Heights said:
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Read the EA. It said nothing about 2040. It talked about 59 GO Georgetown trains per day on "opening day." 8 GO Bolton, 53 GO Milton, 47 GO Barrie. Those are up from 19, 0, 12, and 8 respectively. That's hardly 10 additional trains. By my math, that's 40 additional trains on the Georgetown line alone.
DavidH
Senior Member
I take the 2017 comment as a "business as usual" statement, since electrification has neither been decided upon or funded at this point. If nothing else changes, those engines will need a rebuild and GO's current intent is to go to Tier 4 then.
Nothing in that statement prevents a decision to electrify. The big problem right now will be the provincial budget deficit. We can run lines on diesel with no extra infrastructure costs, or we can run on electric with a big upfront cost. The advantages of electric are huge, but if it isn't absolutely a requirement, it's going to be very hard to shake the dollars loose in the foreseeable future.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
That leads us to the fundamental question:
Should we have zero expansion until electrification, or modest expansions in the mean time?