GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[nfitz]

Seriously, think about it, who really thought that train service would be extended to Kitchener and Barrie?

There was service to Guelph and Barrie until 1996(?) when it was cut the last time anyone was crazy enough to elect the Tories who had eliminated ALL funding for GO.

Who didn't think that service wouldn't be restored sooner or later after they were gone? Kitchener is kind of a no-brainer once they get to Guelph. I'm actually surprised they haven't extended one or two trains to Galt station yet, now that Bowmanville and further extension toward Niagara are go.

 

[nfitz]

This is why I think all rail lines need to be Nationalized. Then you contact the various freight operators to run on it.

Do you not recall VIA and GO having similar issues when CN was nationalized?

 

[crs1026]

Another bad dead by Metrolinx. How exactly hard is it to build 2 extra tracks from Bramalea to Georgetown?

How hard is it to build anything when you don't own the land and the land owner (who you want to buy the land from so you can build on it) knows you don't have a viable Plan B?

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

You'd think it would be an easy thing for them to say, "The Liberals have promised it, we'll actually get it done, CN will like us more etc".

You'd think it would be "easy" for Brown et al to state anything definitive, on anything at all, but alas...

How exactly hard is it to build 2 extra tracks from Bramalea to Georgetown?

With a much better pending solution, very difficult in terms of cost and logic.

Whether you can accept a projected figure from IBI or not, (I think it will be double the ball-park figure touted, and *still* worth it many times over) IBI has phrased it as (gist) "costing as much as the improvements needed for two-way all day service for the K-W line alone". So if the budget exists to do as you tout, and you overlook the need to separate catenary from CN freight too, then it should go towards The Link, and benefit almost every other line in the GTHA, including your golden dream, the Milton Line. (Clarification: IBI's report is on the *full* Link, CP and CN, and the cost to do it touted as what it would cost to do the K/W All Day Two Way if the Link isn't built)

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Well, if GO is ever extended to Gravenhurst, it would make some sense.

Seriously, think about it, who really thought that train service would be extended to Kitchener and Barrie?

Well if Go were to offer a weekender/holiday/summer service to cottage country maybe, but at the moment GO is a commuter rail service aspiring to be a regional rail service.

The only service that comes close to being a vacation line is the service to Niagara Falls

 

[dowlingm]

Do you not recall VIA and GO having similar issues when CN was nationalized?

I think the issue is more the creation of a UK-style "Network Rail" which would allocate track time without having its own interests foremost. Problem in Canada is which level of government would operate and fund such an entity.

 

[jys]

Do you not recall VIA and GO having similar issues when CN was nationalized?

Do you mean privatised? GO and VIA were not around when CN was created as a government entity back in the 1920s.

 

[TOareaFan]

The 'goldmine' may not be a pot of gold, but my point was that whatever cash incentive CN is offered - and there will be one buried in there somewhere - it is money CN will not reap if the deal were to fall through. So there is some pressure on CN to take a deal - but only at the point where it is truly 'take it or leave it'.- Paul

My view on this is getting worse the more I hear people expand on it. I was a bit "down" when I thought ML had been out-negotiated/maneuvered by CN in buying the bits CN didn't want and letting them keep the key middle bit....and then getting no further access to Bramalea and points west for their troubles.

I got a bit "downer" when it became clear the only way to get access to that bit in the middle was to spend, what, billions of dollars building CN a bypass so that their trains can continue to run unfettered by pesky passenger trains and freeing up the "just east of Bramalea" to Georgetown stretch for GO/Via/Murray'sfasttrain.

Now you tell me that there will be a cash incentive to CN needed for them to operate on this new corridor we build for them? Level of "down" just went up a notch.

 

[crs1026]

Now you tell me that there will be a cash incentive to CN needed for them to operate on this new corridor we build for them? Level of "down" just went up a notch.

One man's "incentive" is just another man's "reasonable rate of return". I'm just assuming that CN will expect the stars and the moon to make the switch. There is not going to be an "at cost" deal, I'm sure. There is no regulator (which even Hydro has) to weigh whether the asking price is reasonable.

I'm not so sure the bypass is really necessary, in the sense that GO had an earlier plan involving flyover(s) that might have worked, but if we add an HxR pledge to the RER pledge, ML probably needs the whole ROW.

It would be pretty difficult for Wynne to backtrack on commitments made about the Bypass, but we don't know whether Brown would consider it essential if his people decided it was cheaper to just negotiate a contract with CN for joint use.

With ML apparently having reversed itself on its earlier desire to be a "real railroad", and a new willingness to contract out the whole operation, CN may see more of a business opportunity to share the Halton Sub if the price is right. The "missing piece to the missing link" is how CN's price for shared use compares to the price of the bypass. Even the latter requires purchasing CN's goodwill.

- Paul

 

[rbt]

I got a bit "downer" when it became clear the only way to get access to that bit in the middle was to spend, what, billions of dollars building CN a bypass so that their trains can continue to run unfettered by pesky passenger trains and freeing up the "just east of Bramalea" to Georgetown stretch for GO/Via/Murray'sfasttrain.

CN's ideal price is about $1000 less than the cost for Metrolinx to construct and operate in tunnels through that section.

 

[nfitz]

I think the issue is more the creation of a UK-style "Network Rail" which would allocate track time without having its own interests foremost. Problem in Canada is which level of government would operate and fund such an entity.

That's a lot easier to do, when you already owned the track in the first place. The cost of buying it would be prohibitive.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

You'd think it would be "easy" for Brown et al to state anything definitive, on anything at all, but alas...

With a much better pending solution, very difficult in terms of cost and logic.

Whether you can accept a projected figure from IBI or not, (I think it will be double the ball-park figure touted, and *still* worth it many times over) IBI has phrased it as (gist) "costing as much as the improvements needed for two-way all day service for the K-W line alone". So if the budget exists to do as you tout, and you overlook the need to separate catenary from CN freight too, then it should go towards The Link, and benefit almost every other line in the GTHA, including your golden dream, the Milton Line. (Clarification: IBI's report is on the *full* Link, CP and CN, and the cost to do it touted as what it would cost to do the K/W All Day Two Way if the Link isn't built)

I can accept that now they are using the missing link as the excuse not to expand service. The missing link as an official idea is very recent. There is nothing stopping them from expansion.

How hard is it to build anything when you don't own the land and the land owner (who you want to buy the land from so you can build on it) knows you don't have a viable Plan B?

- Paul

One man's "incentive" is just another man's "reasonable rate of return". I'm just assuming that CN will expect the stars and the moon to make the switch. There is not going to be an "at cost" deal, I'm sure. There is no regulator (which even Hydro has) to weigh whether the asking price is reasonable.

I'm not so sure the bypass is really necessary, in the sense that GO had an earlier plan involving flyover(s) that might have worked, but if we add an HxR pledge to the RER pledge, ML probably needs the whole ROW.

It would be pretty difficult for Wynne to backtrack on commitments made about the Bypass, but we don't know whether Brown would consider it essential if his people decided it was cheaper to just negotiate a contract with CN for joint use.

With ML apparently having reversed itself on its earlier desire to be a "real railroad", and a new willingness to contract out the whole operation, CN may see more of a business opportunity to share the Halton Sub if the price is right. The "missing piece to the missing link" is how CN's price for shared use compares to the price of the bypass. Even the latter requires purchasing CN's goodwill.

- Paul

No offense, but the excuses from the province have gotten old. This is two tracks from Bramalea to Mt Pleasant. That's not even 10km. It would cast about 350 million and also work on the missing while waiting. How hard is this? And this is the third busiest line here. Not bringing more then 60 min service to Newmarket, the gaps in Stouffville service, I mean this is not you expand a product successfully.

 

[johntauren]

Platform Four at Bramalea has been virtually untouched for over year, if not two years by now and is still unfinished.

So, what in the world is going on there?
Could that be partially why they haven't bothered with extra track beyond?

 

[LNahid2000]

Platform Four at Bramalea has been virtually untouched for over year, if not two years by now and is still unfinished.

So, what in the world is going on there?
Could that be partially why they haven't bothered with extra track beyond?

And Burlington GO Station has been under construction for 8 years...what's new with Metrolinx?

 

[djsurflfs]

Looks like Barrie Line may be getting its 8th train round trip this September.
The new trains will be scheduled approx. 20~30 minutes later than the existing last morning/evening train.

(source: YRT service change page)