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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Since they're successfully running hourly offpeak in both directions at other times of the day, why is this AD2W hole so big?

Could they tighten it up a little bit, such as having a smaller 2-hour or 3-hour hole (16:00-19:00) -- or is the bidirectional railway scheduling capacity so tight all the way to 9pm?

The short answer - to have a reverse direction train during peak, two things are required: there has to be a peak-direction train that turns back at Unionville, and there has to be a 40 minute hole in the peak-direction headway because the reverse direction train has no where to pass other trains between Milliken and Scarboro Jct. There can't be a "next" northbound train at Scarborough until the previous train has cleared at Unionville, and the southbound has come to Scarborough.

The earliest that a train could proceed southwards in the evening is about 1910 out of Unionville, once the 18:35 train arrives (at 19:13). But - there would have to be a train that can be turned back that had run earlier. That would have to be an additional train, otherwise one of the previous trains (before the 18:35 train) would not offer service beyond Unionville. That may be a bridge too far.

I'm interested in how the new service will dovetail with the other lines, especially Kitchener Line service. In the morning post-rush hour, peak trains that would have laid over (with crews working a split shift) will instead finish their day doing mid-day runs. New crews will come on in the afternoon to do some peak service work (replacing the previous split shift crews) and then finish their shift doing evening trains to Unionville.

Note that the last run of the night goes all the way back to Lincolnville - I wonder if it ties up there or deadheads back to wherever the crew started its shift.

PS - Look how the 15:11 train out of Union is "Stranded" at Lincolnville at 16:24. There is no track to let that train come back into the City for more service until rush hour ends. That's a very costly proposition - adding passing capability is really desirable just to move the equipment around.

- Paul
 
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^map was probably fun to make...but not particularly useful....not all off peak is the same and a map suggests it is....ppl on KW line might be tempted to show up on an evening or weekend...ppl on Barrie line might show up during the week to get service that they get on weekends.....ppl on Stouffville line might show up on weekends to get service they have during the week :(
 
^map was probably fun to make...but not particularly useful....not all off peak is the same and a map suggests it is....ppl on KW line might be tempted to show up on an evening or weekend...ppl on Barrie line might show up during the week to get service that they get on weekends.....ppl on Stouffville line might show up on weekends to get service they have during the week :(

Why don't I make another one; with colour codings for weekend, evening and afternoon peak service?
 
^map was probably fun to make...but not particularly useful....not all off peak is the same and a map suggests it is....ppl on KW line might be tempted to show up on an evening or weekend...ppl on Barrie line might show up during the week to get service that they get on weekends.....ppl on Stouffville line might show up on weekends to get service they have during the week :(

39Gtzts.jpg


No colour indicates Peak only commuter service. Go to GOtransit.com for more specific schedules
 
I think your green box around the 18 weekday offpeak trains on Kitchener line is wrong too....there were trains added but I don't think it was 18....my recollection is that it was something like 7 in one direction and 8 in the other direction for around 15/day.

Thanks for the feedback. Updated version.

2ras05M
 
extending off-peak to Mount Joy really would be a huge improvement. It seems like such a stub of service right now.

I agree--all of the stations up to Milliken are in Toronto, Unionville is just barely on the border of the residential part of Markham.

This is, however, mitigated by Unionville being a very important station. It is near a lot of recent and upcoming higher-density residential development, and it is located just east of where the Viva Highway 7 rapidway currently ends (with Viva service running in mixed traffic, but on low-traffic roads to Unionville). The condos and Viva service provide it with a lot of possible riders, and it's also a stop for the 407 East GO Bus. And a significant portion of Markham's population is quite close.

I've taken the GO Bus downtown from Unionville a couple of times and both times it was extremely busy, the only time I've ever been unable to get on a full GO bus was a Unionville heading south, and most of that was because of the huge crowd boarding at Unionville. It's a good place to start.
 
Note that the last run of the night goes all the way back to Lincolnville - I wonder if it ties up there or deadheads back to wherever the crew started its shift.

- Paul

During the week, all trains will overnight in Lincolnville. This schedule is being accomodated by storing two L6s on Track 1 (first track parallel to the mainline) and two more L6s on the main at a temporary platform built for this.

On Friday nights, the two L6s that would have laid over will deadhead back to Willowbrook. They will deadhead back to Lincolnville on Sunday night to prepare for Monday.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
It will be really interesting to see how all-day service on the Stouffville line, which has the second lowest ridership of the lines, will affect its ridership.

Is it a "build it and they will come" scenario where good service creates good ridership, or will the trains be mostly empty when areas like the Milton Line are more deserving of such service.
 
It will be really interesting to see how all-day service on the Stouffville line, which has the second lowest ridership of the lines, will affect its ridership.

Is it a "build it and they will come" scenario where good service creates good ridership, or will the trains be mostly empty when areas like the Milton Line are more deserving of such service.

It could be a bit of both.

I think it's inevitable that increased service will improve ridership.

The question is, would increased service on an already busier line, like Milton, increase ridership by more.

Ultimately, all lines need off-peak service and would end up looking like Lakeshore, I think.
 
They haven't specifically said they don't think it's worth adding more track. I think the issue might be (and I'm not an expert and haven't talked to anyone on the inside) is that even with some additional track, the crossovers are still a challenge and CP Rail would want a very expensive rail-over-rail grade separation near the Humber River (see below; scenarios 2, 3, 4 require a grade separation, 1 and 5 do not). Here is what it says in the Business Case Analysis for the Milton line (I've extracted the relevant pages). Just as is the case with other lines, Metrolinx may want to do more on Milton, but they have to work within the funding envelop given by the Province and if CP Rail is playing hard ball or wants a price the Province doesn't accept, the wait continues.

PdMGTJH.png
Just curious, where do you find these things lol? I'm on the Metrolinx site weekly and never can find any of these files.


Scenario 4 has to be the answer. All this talk about the transit spending, GO and the province need to put their money where their mouth is. Scenario 2 is nice, but no Milton service. If Milton gets all days service, the town of Milton will have to increase the local bus service and add sunday service as well.
Fortunately, it was not as feared. No reduction in morning peak service. A definite confusion occured (added trains by extension to Lincolnville) but to allay fears, here's the real schedule on GOTransit providing six options that arrives at Union by 9am:

View attachment 111251

However, that big counter-peak gap (Unionville->Union) from 15:46 through 21:01 is quite a standout:

View attachment 111252

Since they're successfully running hourly offpeak in both directions at other times of the day, why is this AD2W hole so big?

Could they tighten it up a little bit, such as having a smaller 2-hour or 3-hour hole (16:00-19:00) -- or is the bidirectional railway scheduling capacity so tight all the way to 9pm?
Probably trackwork. I bet by end 2018 they will have closed up the gap and extended service to Mt Joy.
Thought I'd make a map showing where some sort of off peak service will be available (whether weekend or mid-day/evening) on the GO system come June 26th.

5pGbHXX.jpg


Not bad. Looking at the map though, extending off-peak to Mount Joy really would be a huge improvement. It seems like such a stub of service right now.
Great map rob. And I agree about Mount Joy. They need to fix that. I guess will will have to wait until double tracking is complete.
39Gtzts.jpg


No colour indicates Peak only commuter service. Go to GOtransit.com for more specific schedules
I spoke too soon. Another great map rob
 
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It could be a bit of both.

I think it's inevitable that increased service will improve ridership.

The question is, would increased service on an already busier line, like Milton, increase ridership by more.

Ultimately, all lines need off-peak service and would end up looking like Lakeshore, I think.

I think it makes GO much more usable for those stations in Toronto that don't have accompanying bus service.

Stouffville used to have higher ridership than Barrie before Barrie started getting more trains, so I really do think it's largely about service. The new York University campus that will open next to Unionville GO in the next few years will generate new demand, as will the growth of Markham Centre as a whole.

The real constraint is a lack of useful connecting YRT shuttle services and <sigh> a lack of parking at most stations on the line (like most of you, I'd rather have more of the former).
 
Just curious, where do you find these things lol? I'm on the Metrolinx site weekly and never can find any of these files.

This document didn't get too much media attention from what I can recall. Steve Munro did do a post on it at the time: https://stevemunro.ca/2016/03/30/gorer-details-emerge-in-business-case-analysis/

Interestingly, the GO RER BCA was released before some of the 'add on' announcements layer in 2016: the Bypass for the Kitchener Corridor, service between Hamilton and Niagara Falls (the first non-Union train transfer), the Bowmanville extension. I'm doing that part by memory so need to double check.

Here is where the full BCA documents are on the Metrolinx website. Note that the PDF file sizes are huge: http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...nefitscases/benefits_case_analyses.aspx#gorer

The appendix has the map which I provided showing the rail-over-rail grade separation at Humber.
 
Hope you checked before updating based on my memory......:)

Honestly I didn't but I'm sure you're accurate. Of course the more input from folks here the better and happy to keep making edits. Either way, just to be safe I emailed Metrolinx to see if they could verify. From what I understand, the chart itself was created by Steve Munro after receiving the data and notations from Metrolinx.
 
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