GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Allandale25]

Just to be clear, the extension of trains to Kitchener was announced back in June, correct?

The service changes - apart, perhaps, from the new Brantford and Cambridge routes - are minor and unexciting. One new train trip to Milton, extension of existing trains to Kitchener, and maybe one more new trip on that corridor. One press conference can do, flanked by all the Liberal MPPs you want. Del Duca is milking it, and people will stop paying attention.

But the role now is getting the approved projects started. Not coming up with new plans out of left field, like Glen Murray liked to do. They're both bad, but for different reasons.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

extension of existing trains to Kitchener

Sorry, where is that?

 

[ShonTron]

Just to be clear, the extension of trains to Kitchener was announced back in June, correct?

Del Duca has to announce it again! That's why it's still embargoed on the GO Transit service changes page.

 

[Allandale25]

Del Duca has to announce it again! That's why it's still embargoed on the GO Transit service changes page.

I'm not doubting he will but would it be the second time it's announced? Wasn't the first time back in June here. Certainly has happened before where announcements are done again.

 

[cbrown2009]

So, on a related subject and just to be clear. No new evening and weekend trains to/from Mount Pleasant (or even Bramalea) - Union coming next month? Just the two current trains extending to Kitchener?

 

[TOareaFan]

So, on a related subject and just to be clear. No new evening and weekend trains to/from Mount Pleasant (or even Bramalea) - Union coming next month? Just the two current trains extending to Kitchener?

that is correct....but wasn't that already expected?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The service changes - apart, perhaps, from the new Brantford and Cambridge routes - are minor and unexciting. One new train trip to Milton, extension of existing trains to Kitchener, and maybe one more new trip on that corridor. One press conference can do, flanked by all the Liberal MPPs you want. Del Duca is milking it, and people will stop paying attention.

But the role now is getting the approved projects started. Not coming up with new plans out of left field, like Glen Murray liked to do. They're both bad, but for different reasons.

seriously, I am no fan of all these pressers....but having a Ministry of Transportation that is actually delivering on previous plans rather than coming up with never ending new plans is somewhat refreshing. For too many years the GTHA has led the world in transit plans....but lagged most similar places in actual transit.

Understood. But Del Duca has done nothing...look at the Vaughan Subway disaster. This should have been opened to Finch West last year and fix everything else later. Del Duca? We are waiting until 2018/19 for the whole thing. Just one example. And dragging his feet on AD2W on the other lines.

Just to be clear, the extension of trains to Kitchener was announced back in June, correct?

Del Duca has to announce it again! That's why it's still embargoed on the GO Transit service changes page.

I'm not doubting he will but would it be the second time it's announced? Wasn't the first time back in June here. Certainly has happened before where announcements are done again.

Yup, it was in june and I don't know why he has to say it again.

So, on a related subject and just to be clear. No new evening and weekend trains to/from Mount Pleasant (or even Bramalea) - Union coming next month? Just the two current trains extending to Kitchener?

that is correct....but wasn't that already expected?

And this is what I am saying...they can't run hourly service to Mt Pleasant starting in Sep at least? 1/2 hourly would require track investments and a agreement with CN for sure, but really we wait until april 2017?

And what Drum said about Milton as well.

 

[Allandale25]

And this is what I am saying...they can't run hourly service to Mt Pleasant starting in Sep at least? 1/2 hourly would require track investments and a agreement with CN for sure, but really we wait until april 2017?

My recollection from what I've seen posted here before is that the evening/weekend off-peak service is coming in April 2017, one month after the 2016-2017 fiscal year, which is what Budget 2016 announced. I also think I've read hear that someone said their source told them the reason for the slow ramp up to weekend/evening service on the Kitchener Corridor isn't because of CN Rail, it's because there are concerns the ridership isn't there yet. The new mid-day trains on the Corridor still need to attract more riders. So it could be a fiscal constraint Metrolinx has (IE they can't let the operating ratio drop below a certain level due to Ministry instructions). My memory could be completely wrong in terms of what someone posted so don't hesitate to correct me.

 

[crs1026]

My recollection from what I've seen posted here before is that the evening/weekend off-peak service is coming in April 2017, one month after the 2016-2017 fiscal year, which is what Budget 2016 announced. I also think I've read hear that someone said their source told them the reason for the slow ramp up to weekend/evening service on the Kitchener Corridor isn't because of CN Rail, it's because there are concerns the ridership isn't there yet. The new mid-day trains on the Corridor still need to attract more riders. So it could be a fiscal constraint Metrolinx has (IE they can't let the operating ratio drop below a certain level due to Ministry instructions). My memory could be completely wrong in terms of what someone posted so don't hesitate to correct me.

You have it correct, and there's the rub:
- It's a rewrite of the original pre-UPX promise on which the Georgetown South project - which put better Georgetown service at the forefront, and service to the airport a distant second - was premised
- It's a dumb place to stand firm on economies, given the capital investment that sits idle when there is no weekend or evening service
- Its a dumb place to stand firm on economies, considering the UPX fiasco (where money was no object)
- Who's to say the ridership and revenue threshold that has been imposed is the most condusive to building ridership. The run-it-and-they-will-come case is compelling.
- It's disappointing to see such a "can't do" mentality

- Paul

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

My recollection from what I've seen posted here before is that the evening/weekend off-peak service is coming in April 2017, one month after the 2016-2017 fiscal year, which is what Budget 2016 announced. I also think I've read hear that someone said their source told them the reason for the slow ramp up to weekend/evening service on the Kitchener Corridor isn't because of CN Rail, it's because there are concerns the ridership isn't there yet. The new mid-day trains on the Corridor still need to attract more riders. So it could be a fiscal constraint Metrolinx has (IE they can't let the operating ratio drop below a certain level due to Ministry instructions). My memory could be completely wrong in terms of what someone posted so don't hesitate to correct me.

You have it correct, and there's the rub:
- It's a rewrite of the original pre-UPX promise on which the Georgetown South project - which put better Georgetown service at the forefront, and service to the airport a distant second - was premised
- It's a dumb place to stand firm on economies, given the capital investment that sits idle when there is no weekend or evening service
- Its a dumb place to stand firm on economies, considering the UPX fiasco (where money was no object)
- Who's to say the ridership and revenue threshold that has been imposed is the most condusive to building ridership. The run-it-and-they-will-come case is compelling.
- It's disappointing to see such a "can't do" mentality

- Paul

I agree with Paul here. UPX also had abmysal ridership (until they cut the fare down.) I'm sure it because of lack of advertisement. Also Barrie and Mt Joy. For Barrie there is still one track north of King City and Stouffville is nearing the end of construction as well. No announcements on either end.

 

[steveintoronto]

Now that Del Duca had his mandatory photo-op, the Milton corridor service changes are up. We have to wait until the slaphead does another photo-op in Kitchener before that schedule change is released.

One additional Milton corridor train - an early morning departure from Milton and early evening departure from Union - and four buses each way on new Route 24 between Milton GO Station and Cambridge Ainslie Street terminal, connecting with trains there.

http://www.gotransit.com/Public/en/updates/schedulechanges.aspx

Had forgotten all about this string, but this jogged my mind today, as manifest exactly by Shon's observation:

Have the “chickens have finally come home to roost” as Premier Kathleen Wynne’s personal approval rating hits an all-time low?

Just 16 per cent of Ontarians approve of Wynne’s job performance, according to a new Forum research poll. Lorne Bozinoff, the firm’s president, said in a statement: “It appears Premier Wynne’s chickens have finally come home to roost, and voters have started to notice the controversies surrounding her government.”

From the scandals left over by her predecessor — deleted gas plant emails, a bungled green energy act and the troubled air ambulance system among them — to more recent exposés of cozy, high-priced Liberal fundraisers, the weight of the party’s nearly 13 years in office is dragging Wynne down.

After bringing the Liberals back to majority power in the party’s fourth-straight election victory in 2014, Wynne is now as unpopular as Dalton McGuinty was before he resigned in the fall of 2012, the last time Forum had a leader as low as 16 per cent approval. (And she has openly debunked rumours she was planning her own retirement before the next vote.) [...]
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ost-as-personal-popularity-hits-new-lows-poll

Ouch! More GO announcements ahoy!

 

[steveintoronto]

Just catching up on the posts. I can't recollect clicking so many 'likes', the comments were barbed but well aimed:

Adding a train and a few buses now requires a photo-op from a minister? I guess Del Luca will be showing up when trains start showing up and arriving on time next. It's pathetic.

Think of all that could be done with the labour that arranging a ministerial photo op entails.

AoD

See the latest poll results posted above:
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ost-as-personal-popularity-hits-new-lows-poll

That's why they only add one train to the schedule per year. It keeps the demand for rose petals and trumpeteers within the Ministerial budget.

Fiscal restraint, ya know.

Ouch! They asked for that one...

There's another Del Duca announcement at Streetsville, heralding the addition of 250 parking spaces. What a twerp.

lol...the man is a like a carnival game pop-up, he keeps popping up, and then hammered back down, by his own hand.

He said as much when he was put into place; his job was to execute on existing ideas/projects and not create additional ones.

I expect to see a ton of additional tendering over the next 18 months or his oversight of that folio may indeed be a failure. If we see tenders (and contract close) Finch, Union & corridor electrification, RER rolling stock, and various corridor modifications agreements in place before the next election then I'll probably consider it a success.

In short, if the Conservatives (or NDP) can't afford to cancel RER because all the contracts are locked in, then I'll be very happy.

Remains to be seen. Tendering means signing on the dotted line. That's commitment. That is anathema to bluster. I agree completely with an alternative regime having to keep the general promises. Transit is just plain common sense. Toronto scored highly on the Economist's "best cities to live", low on "infrastructure". What has to change is the delivery. And accountability.

You have it correct, and there's the rub:
- It's a rewrite of the original pre-UPX promise on which the Georgetown South project - which put better Georgetown service at the forefront, and service to the airport a distant second - was premised
- It's a dumb place to stand firm on economies, given the capital investment that sits idle when there is no weekend or evening service
- Its a dumb place to stand firm on economies, considering the UPX fiasco (where money was no object)
- Who's to say the ridership and revenue threshold that has been imposed is the most condusive to building ridership. The run-it-and-they-will-come case is compelling.
- It's disappointing to see such a "can't do" mentality

Consensus is almost unanimous. I've taken a beating from some on being such a skeptic on the Missing Link, or even the asymmetric just CN by-pass being financed, let alone the "Kitchener All Day" breakfast feast, but the basis for my skepticism is shared by many.

Next: The High Speed announcement. It's due in a month. Any guesses?

Edit to Add: I guess that they will *pull* the Collenette High Speed report announcement. Just sit on it. No matter what he *plans* to announce, it will be bad news for the present Lib regime. It was a "feel good" election promise coming back to haunt them. Kick it down the road, and maybe it will go away...

 

[TOareaFan]

You have it correct, and there's the rub:
- It's a rewrite of the original pre-UPX promise on which the Georgetown South project - which put better Georgetown service at the forefront, and service to the airport a distant second - was premised
- It's a dumb place to stand firm on economies, given the capital investment that sits idle when there is no weekend or evening service
- Its a dumb place to stand firm on economies, considering the UPX fiasco (where money was no object)
- Who's to say the ridership and revenue threshold that has been imposed is the most condusive to building ridership. The run-it-and-they-will-come case is compelling.
- It's disappointing to see such a "can't do" mentality

- Paul

At the time they launched midday, weekday, peak trains and did not launch evening and weekend I predicted both of these things....ridership would be low with midday weakday likely the least "in demand" service enhancement (and not just on this line) and these numbers would be "held against" the line and give people a reason to question expansion to when people actually want/need service (evenings and weekends)....evening and weekend expansion should have come first.

All that said, I have of late become less convinced of the viability/need for any off peak rail service between Bramalea/Brampton and Union Station.....what we need is to consolidate available resources and run as many (as frequently) trains in the off peak between Bramalea/Brampton and Weston....if the every 15 minutes service level of UP can be matched...great....but build small trains and run them frequently and in a few years you might need to expand those trains and take them right through to Union....but Brampton-Weston is the right move...for now.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Just catching up on the posts. I can't recollect clicking so many 'likes', the comments were barbed but well aimed:

See the latest poll results posted above:
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ost-as-personal-popularity-hits-new-lows-poll


Ouch! They asked for that one...


lol...the man is a like a carnival game pop-up, he keeps popping up, and then hammered back down, by his own hand.


Remains to be seen. Tendering means signing on the dotted line. That's commitment. That is anathema to bluster. I agree completely with an alternative regime having to keep the general promises. Transit is just plain common sense. Toronto scored highly on the Economist's "best cities to live", low on "infrastructure". What has to change is the delivery. And accountability.


Consensus is almost unanimous. I've taken a beating from some on being such a skeptic on the Missing Link, or even the asymmetric just CN by-pass being financed, let alone the "Kitchener All Day" breakfast feast, but the basis for my skepticism is shared by many.

Next: The High Speed announcement. It's due in a month. Any guesses?

Edit to Add: I guess that they will *pull* the Collenette High Speed report announcement. Just sit on it. No matter what he *plans* to announce, it will be bad news for the present Lib regime. It was a "feel good" election promise coming back to haunt them. Kick it down the road, and maybe it will go away...

Love this post. And that's the rub: Wi
ll they drag their feet for all that kitchener service? I don't think so! Not unless they want to lose their waterloo area seats. Mt Pleasant - Union is the goal for for hourly and so is Barrie -Union, Mt Joy - Union. Let's see if they actually do it in 2017. I'm sure. Patrick Brown wants to.

At the time they launched midday, weekday, peak trains and did not launch evening and weekend I predicted both of these things....ridership would be low with midday weakday likely the least "in demand" service enhancement (and not just on this line) and these numbers would be "held against" the line and give people a reason to question expansion to when people actually want/need service (evenings and weekends)....evening and weekend expansion should have come first.

All that said, I have of late become less convinced of the viability/need for any off peak rail service between Bramalea/Brampton and Union Station.....what we need is to consolidate available resources and run as many (as frequently) trains in the off peak between Bramalea/Brampton and Weston....if the every 15 minutes service level of UP can be matched...great....but build small trains and run them frequently and in a few years you might need to expand those trains and take them right through to Union....but Brampton-Weston is the right move...for now.

Politics will get Brampton to Union. This is just poor advertising and typical feet dragging. They can't do brampton-weston and then Barrie-Union.


People in these places will have to start a public campaign or something.

 

[TOareaFan]

Love this post. And that's the rub: Wi
ll they drag their feet for all that kitchener service? I don't think so! Not unless they want to lose their waterloo area seats. Mt Pleasant - Union is the goal for for hourly and so is Barrie -Union, Mt Joy - Union. Let's see if they actually do it in 2017. I'm sure. Patrick Brown wants to.
Politics will get Brampton to Union. This is just poor advertising and typical feet dragging. They can't do brampton-weston and then Barrie-Union.


People in these places will have to start a public campaign or something.

As a resident of Brampton who commutes to Toronto...I would be far more impressed by my politicians if they said "we got you an every 15 minute shuttle to Weston where you can free transfer to the every 15 minute UP to Union" than them saying "we got you hourly service direct to Union"