GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[nfitz]

Ah....but you did see trains on the weekend!!!

So? They have been there since... off-the-top-of-my-head, 1967? That's 40 years without any off-peak improvements. Despite decades of promises. Part of the deal of cancelling the Gardiner in the early 1970s from Leslie to Kingston Road was the increase in service frequency. At this rate, anyone who would have heard that promise will have died of old age before it comes.

Frankly, I get a bit peeved when I read about Lakeshore communters demanding more service now!

Why? They are by far the busiest trains. And they've been waiting for promised upgrades for a lot longer than anyone else.

 

[Dan416]

When was the 3rd track between Port Credit and Kerr St to be finish as stated during the EA study? The EA was approved when?

To date, there is a bridge over the Port Credit River, 16 Mile Creek and Southdown Rd. There is no bridge over Mississauga Rd or the creek in Oakville as well a number of other spots. There is no retraining wall built along the north side to support the new track let along earth work.

On Aug 25 work is supposed to start rebuilding Clarkson Station. Oakville station work will not start until Feb 2009 or until the new VIA station is finishing being built. New track work can be in place for the 16 mile bridge and part of Oakville station this fall.

At the rate this expansion is going, 2010 will be the completion time and about 2 years late.

Given this pace, 2015 is a date the Milton line will see 3 tracks 100% at the earliest.

Exactly.

GO is doing a fantastic job for a government agency that's been starved to the bone for 10 years. But to be a 21st century interregional rail service they're going to have to do a lot more investment in infrastructure. They're doing it very piecemeal right now because that's all they can afford to do, and the improvements are coming, but they take too long, and while we wait for GO to improve, the highways get clogged and everyone's either sitting in traffic or waiting for a delayed GO train.

I really hope that with Metrolinx around now that GO can get it's game back and really help out the whole GTA and Hamilton. I mean really, there's what, 3 trains in and out from Hamilton to Toronto? That's ridiculous. And people like to think we're world-class. GO isn't world-class. And please don't jump on the "world-class" moniker. You know what I mean.

 

[unimaginative2]

I think they're making a big mistake just adding a track at a time and handing it over to CN/CP. The freight railways will always prioritize their trains and fight any additional passenger service. GO needs its own dedicated pair of tracks along all of its route, like between Pickering and Oshawa, where it can control scheduling completely. We're never going to see "urban" service without it.

To me, this is the bare minimum infrastructure for decent rail service:

Weston Sub

• 2 Tracks for GO
• 2 Tracks for Mainline, Freight, Airport service

Galt Sub (Milton Line)

• 2 Tracks for Freight
• 2 Tracks for GO

Lakeshore Line

• 2 Tracks for GO
• 2 Tracks for Mainline, Freight, GO Expresses
• Occasional passing track

Uxbridge Sub

• 2 Tracks for GO, Freight

Bala Sub (North of York Sub)

• 2 Tracks for GO
• 1 Track for Freight

Bala Sub (South of York Sub)

• 2 Tracks for GO, Freight

Newmarket Sub:

• 2 Tracks for GO, Freight

 

[TOareaFan]

So? They have been there since... off-the-top-of-my-head, 1967? That's 40 years without any off-peak improvements. Despite decades of promises.

So the line has had something for 40 years that no other GO line has....and the rest of the area is supposed to feel bad because the gap in service hasn't gotten any wider? In various forms and models, GO has always been paid for by the taxpayers of, either, the entire GTA or the Province.....yet this massive inequity of service has been allowed to exist.

Why? They are by far the busiest trains. And they've been waiting for promised upgrades for a lot longer than anyone else.

Well, I am not sure they have been waiting for promised upgrades " a lot longer"......probably roughly the same length of time....but it is a bit hard to take when someone complains that the weekend service is not frequent enough when you are served by a line that not only does not have weekend service but if you are not ready to leave the office during the week at 5:30 then you don't have a train home! It is all relative, I'm sure and I am in no way doubting that upgrades to the Lakeshore service are warranted but I do think there needs to be a far more balanced view of the system.

As for being the busiest trains...well I think that just shows that if you provide decent service levels people will use your service. I had this discussion with a guy at GO probably 7 or 8 years ago. He said (at the time) GO puts far more of its resources into the Lakeshore line because (paraphrase) "that's where our riders are"......being from Brampton, I asked him if GO had any sort of studies that showed people in Oakville (the example I used) are more likely to use transit than people in Brampton.....he answered "no"....so I then asked him if he didn't think that if Brampton had the same service as Oakville that you would generate more ridership from the +/- 350k (at the time) people in Brampton than the +/-120k in Oakville.....he reluctantly agreed but still said they would put more money into the Lakeshore line! If there is regular reliable service with enough frequency that you can get home the same way you went......people on all lines will replicate the ridership numbers of the Lakeshore line (unless you know something about Lakeshore residents that I and GO don't know).

In fact, what that shows is there is more likely to be a greater return by investing in the lines other than Lakeshore. How many new riders will additional service on Lakeshore produce? The other lines, though, could generate significant new ridership (and revenue) by the proposed (long, long promised) increases in service levels.

I hear the trains are pretty full on the Milton line, though!

 

[nfitz]

I don't disagree that upgrades are necessary on many GO lines. I'd happily see hourly 7-day service on all the routes - though some are challenged to do so until various upgrades already in the pipeline are finished.

But what's left to increase the Lakeshore East frequency (apart from Lakeshore West)? There's already staff in all the stations. The trains are parked somewhere not being used. There's some cost to staff an additional 6-8 trainsets from, say Pickering to Clarkson (assuming that half-hour service doesn't run the entire line) - but I'd almost think the additional revenue might cover this.

 

[dowlingm]

the one thing about the Lakeshore line is that half the catchment (or thereabouts) is water...

 

[TOareaFan]

I don't disagree that upgrades are necessary on many GO lines. I'd happily see hourly 7-day service on all the routes - though some are challenged to do so until various upgrades already in the pipeline are finished.

But what's left to increase the Lakeshore East frequency (apart from Lakeshore West)? There's already staff in all the stations. The trains are parked somewhere not being used. There's some cost to staff an additional 6-8 trainsets from, say Pickering to Clarkson (assuming that half-hour service doesn't run the entire line) - but I'd almost think the additional revenue might cover this.

Like I said, everyone supports better service everywhere but I wonder how much additional revenue would be generated rather than just spreading of the revenue over additional trains (ie. I think it is a pretty mature service which has established credibility with the transit users of the area and which has full parking lots....so it is now a matter of making it more comfortable and convenient).

Aside from not having a huge potential to generate much additional revenue....you left out a pretty significant cost which is fuel (a parked train doesn't use much).....so there is a risk that the new service actually turns out be a negative generator of revenue (clumsy way of saying a money loser).

Anyway, did not mean this to be a "this line v that line" debate, I was just responding that system-wide patience is needed and a bit of understanding why they might spend money on a line other than the one that serves us best.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I'd imagine that if, say, one more train was made available, the most 'profitable' place to run it would be on a non-Lakeshore line during rush hour.

 

[nfitz]

I'd imagine that if, say, one more train was made available, the most 'profitable' place to run it would be on a non-Lakeshore line during rush hour.

My understanding is that all the train-sets are accounted for during rush hour. It's off-peak where there is available equipment.

 

[Dan416]

The line that would benefit the most from an added train or two would be Milton for sure. It's the only line that has all its runs as 12-car trains (AFAIK). GO didn't choose Milton at random for that.

 

[FutureMayor]

GO Transit

I've just been appointed to GO Transit's New Customer Service Advisory Committee.

The committee is comprised of 8 members representing each line and I’m excited to be representing the Milton Line!

We just had our first meeting last week with the senior management team and I’ve already stated my top three priorities:

1. Ensuring all-day GO Service on the Milton Line is implemented ASAP.
2. Enhanced and Increased GO Bus Service, especially on the
Georgetown Line.
3. Redevelopment of Union Station.

Our next meeting is scheduled in two weeks time. If anyone has a good idea or has a suggestion for improving service in a specific area I would love to hear from you and bring it forward in a future meeting.

Louroz

 

[khris]

Why are you stating a priority for the Georgetown line if you're on the Milton line?

I'd like to know if and when that bridge is being built across Hurontario at Cooksville GO so that pedestrians can safely cross Hurontario without having to walk a full block to the lights only to have to walk back another block to get to the bus stop.

 

[FutureMayor]

I'm not limited to just speaking and advocating on behalf of the Milton line.

I also believe I'm the only committee member who uses the GO Bus. I use the Georgetown Go Bus, specifically the Downtown Brampton - Union Service for work and would like to see the same frequency as the Milton Go Bus.

The recently approved bridge over Hurontario Street at Cooksville Station was the very first item I brought up at my meeting with staff. I live off John Street where that new bridge will be built and have asked for a street light to be be installed in the meantime.

Louroz

 

[nfitz]

If anyone has a good idea or has a suggestion for improving service in a specific area I would love to hear from you and bring it forward in a future meeting.

One thing jumps to mind is improved connections between GO and TTC stations. Particularly Oriole jumps out at me - is that platform ever going to moved closer to Leslie; also have you ever tried walking from Oriole Station to Lesmill? It's only 200 metres from the end of the platform across open grass, but unless you jump the fence, you have to walk 600 metres, crossing under the 401 twice!

 

[TOareaFan]

I've just been appointed to GO Transit's New Customer Service Advisory Committee.

The committee is comprised of 8 members representing each line and I’m excited to be representing the Milton Line!

We just had our first meeting last week with the senior management team and I’ve already stated my top three priorities:

1. Ensuring all-day GO Service on the Milton Line is implemented ASAP.
2. Enhanced and Increased GO Bus Service, especially on the
Georgetown Line.
3. Redevelopment of Union Station.

Our next meeting is scheduled in two weeks time. If anyone has a good idea or has a suggestion for improving service in a specific area I would love to hear from you and bring it forward in a future meeting.

Louroz

It is good to see that while you "represent" the Milton line, you are not solely focused on that line's issues. Just wondering, however, why you would advocate all day GO rail service to Milton but limit your advocacy for the Georgetown line to buses? Wouldn't it make more sense advocate for all day, 7 day, two way train service on that line too?

I happen to believe that GO should be working to get out of the bus business....It is my belief that their most effective use of their resources would be to put all of their money and energy into making all of their train lines full service. So their job within a transit network would be to shuttle people quickly in and out of the city. Once they get to their destinations it should be local transits job to use those GO stations as trip generators and deliver people to their local destinations.

GO's only use of buses (IMHO) should be as "line extenders"....so, as an example, if the Georgetown line was extended back to Guelph, perhaps not all trains go there initially and those that don't, get replaced with buses. Once the service is built up to full use and you get to the point that all trains are going to Guelph, then you might extend the line to Kitchener and start all over.....but those buses should not be stopping in between the stations and doing the job of local transit.