An increase in overall frequency would also negate this problem. The issue is too many people crowding onto too few trains. If people have more options, having to use a Stouffville train wouldn't have been as big of an issue.
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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
An increase in overall frequency would also negate this problem. The issue is too many people crowding onto too few trains. If people have more options, having to use a Stouffville train wouldn't have been as big of an issue.
drum118
Superstar
Milton riders maybe in for a rough ride shortly and don't know for how long.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Agreed, but I think it would be interesting to see how many Stouffville (potential) riders would actually benefit from having the trains stop at the common stations. I feel that what transit planning in this city lacks most is good information on where people are actually going. As it stands now, we don't know if a move like this will benefit a dozen or ten thousand people. I don't know what the magic number is though.
nfitz
Superstar
On any GO Train route, how many people would benefit from stopping at any station between them and Union? Any stop after your station and Union, is not for your benefit!
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Har de har har.
For those who miss the sarcasm here, I'm referring to people who today ride to Union and double-back, or who get off a stop early and seek a bus connection, or those who would ride if the station a block from their work had service. They all might benefit from the train stopping at, say, Scarborough Junction, but we don't know who they are and how many of them there are.
ShonTron
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Discussion on Presto data collection moved here.
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/4286-Presto-GTA-Fare-Card/page93
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/4286-Presto-GTA-Fare-Card/page93
trainiart
New Member
To elaborate on the above. There are several sidings on the line, yet they are located in somewhat awkward locations that prohibit efficient counterpeak train movements.
One siding is near Bayview roughly between Gerrard and Danforth. Another one is north of York Mills. The third one is north of Steeles (south of the Doncaster diamond). The line is double-tracked north of Doncaster, but the second track cannot be used for revenue trains since this track has no platform at Langstaff.
From my observations, the "normal" evening schedule looks like this: the 4:30 (all times here by their original Union departures) train deadheads back and meets the 5:00 train at Steeles. Apparently, it can't make it further without jeopardizing that revenue train's schedule. It then meets the 5:30 train at York Mills. The deadheading 5:00 train meets 5:30 at Steeles. This last meeting is very often delayed for reasons I don't know: maybe the deadheading 5:00 is waiting for a crossing freight at Doncaster, maybe there's something else, like delayed departure from RH. Sometimes they eliminate the wait by keeping the 5:00 on the second track north of Doncaster. I don't know where does the deadheading 5:30 meet the revenue 6:45, it must be either Bayview or York Mills.
So for example 4:30 train has to wait for two revenue trains on its way back. IIRC, 3-4 years ago it somehow managed to make it to Bayview siding to meet the revenue 5:30, correct me if I'm wrong.
Anyways, if we consider it to become revenue, it would depart from RH southbound at, say, 5:20, then it would meet the 5:30 northbound at York Mills at appx. 5:52. It is then going to arrive at Union no earlier than 6:15, which is already 10 minutes longer than regular (and not very fast) RH train schedule. Add to that the usual delays at Doncaster, and this counterpeak train schedule is risking to become prohibitively long.
Yet the 5:00 train has only one other train to meet on its way back (the 5:30), so the standard delay would not be so significant. On the other hand, these trains normally rush past Langstaff at full speed on their way back, and still they're often late to meet the next one at Steeles, so making them stop at Langstaff will only make this problem worse, risking more delays to northbound trips.
Maybe they shall ask the people in their next Let GO Know if they would rather have ANY counter-peak service, albeit the one with such slowed-down schedule, or none at all. I would personally vote for such slow-but-existing one, but that's just me. How many other people would like to use such slower trains I can't estimate. Well, I'd love to have at least some counter-peak buses!
Instead of turning these trains into revenue, they're eliminating them. Bravo. While right now it's theoretically possible, though not very likely, to create the customer campaign in order to convert those into revenue service (which will no longer cost GO any more in trackage rights paid to CN since they own Bala sub now), with the introduction of the new layover the possibility of counter-peak service on RH line diminishes to below zero. I wonder if this extension to Stouffville Road and elimination of deadheaded trains will bring ANY schedule improvement (like at least a late-morning shoulder train or another train between 5:30 and 6:45 - a whopping 1:15 gap!), something is telling me that it's not likely: GO doesn't consider a train successful unless it's overcrowded. And they know that introducing, say, a late-morning train will not bring that many new customers, since the line is restricted by parking rather than anything else. But counterpeak service (especially evening) actually makes sense since parking IS available at that time.
liamdevlin02
New Member
I acknowledge that there are logistical issues, but since the trains are already running counter to the flow and are already crewed, part of the problems outlined before are solved. Its unfortunate that GO would rather build layovers to the north than service a potential new market with some "creative" scheduling. On a personal note, a northbound morning/southbound evening service on the RH line would be exactly right for me.
The later evening trains will sometimes meet with the southbound ONR Northlander. Depending on how late that train is running, that meet will be at Oriole/York Mills or at Rosedale.
The later evening trains will sometimes meet with the southbound ONR Northlander. Depending on how late that train is running, that meet will be at Oriole/York Mills or at Rosedale.
drum118
Superstar
Come Ride It
RedRocket191
Senior Member
I have no idea why I'm on the media release list, but the Milton line is getting an additional round trip starting June 25.
The new trip will leave Milton a 7:13 am and arrive Union at 8:13, making it the premier train for 8:30 starters. The 6:48 and 7:08 departures will leave 5 minutes earlier. The new return trip will leave Union at 4:00 and arrive at Milton at 4:58. The Milton buses departing union at 3:40 pm will be cancelled.
Baby steps, I know. But it's better than no steps at all.
The new trip will leave Milton a 7:13 am and arrive Union at 8:13, making it the premier train for 8:30 starters. The 6:48 and 7:08 departures will leave 5 minutes earlier. The new return trip will leave Union at 4:00 and arrive at Milton at 4:58. The Milton buses departing union at 3:40 pm will be cancelled.
Baby steps, I know. But it's better than no steps at all.
nfitz
Superstar
It's a start. It's on the GO website, now - http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/updates/schedulechanges.aspx
Wasn't the Barrie weekend service supposed to start the same day according to some?
Wasn't the Barrie weekend service supposed to start the same day according to some?
aleesia
Active Member
It's still too early...
Sometime in early June, they'll release more details about the:
- Barrie weekend train
- Niagara weekend train summer service, as well as
- the shuttle bus between St. Catharines and Niagara-on-the-Lake
- and possibly more...
I know where many people riding the weekend GO Train will go to: Wasaga Beach! So a Barrie - Wasga Beach - Collingwood - Blue Mountain GO Shuttle is a must when running the GO Train up there during weekends! I hope there would be something like that for the Barrie train, similar to the recently-announced NOTL service for Niagara Region.
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nfitz
Superstar
What's the point of the Barrie weekend service?
Is it to provide some off-peak service for people in Barrie to get to Toronto. Or is it a summer tourist thing?
Is it to provide some off-peak service for people in Barrie to get to Toronto. Or is it a summer tourist thing?
rbt
Senior Member
Possibly going after the university crowd. Buses tend to be pretty packed heading to Barrie on Friday night/Saturday morning.
Heck, I might use it. Have a little family in Barrie but I absolutely refuse to go that way on a long weekend due to Highway 400 traffic.