GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[crs1026]

That is a good point. Why did electrification take priority over more dedicated tracks?

Electrification should only become cheaper and cheaper in the future as the technology gets more advanced. Making dedicated tracks though will likely become more and more expensive as land only goes up and will have to be acquired.

I guess you didn’t notice that the only tracks they are electrifying are all ready dedicated and wire ready…. LSE to Oshawa, Stouffville, Barrie, Kitchener to Bramalea, LSW to Burlington…. No freight interference of note along those.

I support more dedicated tracks on current freight lines, but there is no impediment to getting on with electrification on the already dedicated lines - and much advantage to doing so.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

I want to see improved passenger rail, but not at the expense of freight. There has to be a win/win solution for both passenger and freight. Demanding CN to move their Hamilton yard to make way for more passenger trains seems like it would hurt the freight network. Make it less efficient. Potentially result in more trucks on the road. Is there room for Metrolinx to build it's own dedicated tracks next to CN's west of the Burlington GO station? Can we not replicate Lakeshore East (Pickering - Oshawa) west of Burlington? It would be awesome to have some kind of "downtown - downtown" express connection between West Harbour and Toronto Union.

Why do you think that it's an either/or situation?

Hamilton's want of the removal of the yard has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that GO services the area. They see it as usable land for the City - but not in its current configuration.

I don't know why there is so much focus on electrification when so much of the network still shares tracks with freight. To me it doesn't make sense to start electrifying the network until Metrolinx has more dedicated tracks. Build the freight bypasses for the Kitchener and Milton lines. Lay down dedicated tracks beside freight tracks for the Richmond Hill line and Lakeshore West, west of Burlington. What's the point of electrification if we're only going to electrify just a portion of the line? Or the fact that, as of right now, Milton will probably never see electrification.

I've said it before, and will say it again - electrification need not prevent the use of freight trains. Hi-cube boxcars, autoracks and double-stack container cars run every single day in the Philadelphia area under the wire. There are other locations on the Northeast Corridor where freights run multiple times a day in concert with the hourly-plus Amtrak trains and even more frequent commuter trains. There is nothing physically preventing CN and CP allowing someone else to string up overhead other than their own stubbornness.

And as other people have already correctly pointed out, Metrolinx already owns a huge portion of their network. With the exception of the Milton line every single branch of the rail system has a very substantial portion of the line owned by Metrolinx - and even on the Milton line it's still several miles of track.

What's the point of electrifying only a portion of the line? Extending that logic, they shouldn't electrify the Lakeshore West line, the single most-used line on the network. It's a silly position to hang your hat on, and thankfully is not one that Metrolinx or the government is taking.

Want improved service? Separate freight from passenger. Afterwards we electrify the network.

You're only about 15 years too late to the party for this. That's why electrification is happening.

Dan

 

[crs1026]

I've said it before, and will say it again - electrification need not prevent the use of freight trains. .

And in fact, when (not if) ML electrifies the Oakville Sub, a meaningful amount of freight including auto racks and hazardous material tank cars will move under wire between Burlington and Clarkson. Easy peasy…. Just because CN and CP are opposed will not prevent ML from running their traffic under wires.

- Paul

 

[WB62]

And as other people have already correctly pointed out, Metrolinx already owns a huge portion of their network. With the exception of the Milton line every single branch of the rail system has a very substantial portion of the line owned by Metrolinx - and even on the Milton line it's still several miles of track.

I think some people underestimate how much of the GO network is now owned by Metrolinx:

 

[sixrings]

Why do you think that it's an either/or situation?

Hamilton's want of the removal of the yard has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that GO services the area. They see it as usable land for the City - but not in its current configuration.


I've said it before, and will say it again - electrification need not prevent the use of freight trains. Hi-cube boxcars, autoracks and double-stack container cars run every single day in the Philadelphia area under the wire. There are other locations on the Northeast Corridor where freights run multiple times a day in concert with the hourly-plus Amtrak trains and even more frequent commuter trains. There is nothing physically preventing CN and CP allowing someone else to string up overhead other than their own stubbornness.

And as other people have already correctly pointed out, Metrolinx already owns a huge portion of their network. With the exception of the Milton line every single branch of the rail system has a very substantial portion of the line owned by Metrolinx - and even on the Milton line it's still several miles of track.

What's the point of electrifying only a portion of the line? Extending that logic, they shouldn't electrify the Lakeshore West line, the single most-used line on the network. It's a silly position to hang your hat on, and thankfully is not one that Metrolinx or the government is taking.


You're only about 15 years too late to the party for this. That's why electrification is happening.

Dan

It seems like always an either or situation when we know we are working with limited funds.

 

[innsertnamehere]

A lot of people don't realize how much money the Liberals spent in the 2000's to make it that way as well - it's a fairly new thing that GO actually owns it's corridors. At the turn of the century GO owned almost none of it.

 

[crs1026]

It seems like always an either or situation when we know we are working with limited funds.

For that very reason, It has taken decades to get electrification to the front burner. It’s about time.

- Paul

 

[sixrings]

For that very reason, It has taken decades to get electrification to the front burner. It’s about time.

- Paul

Sorry Paul. Apparently everyone here is in agreement and maybe I just don’t understand the pros to be electrified other than the environment. As a hybrid car owner I appreciate the environment but are there other tangible benefits.

Also as a Milton line user I’m like a broken record thinking this line needs to be fixed asap and the benefits are clear. All day go train service.

 

[Bojaxs]

Hamilton's want of the removal of the yard has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that GO services the area. They see it as usable land for the City - but not in its current configuration.

Where would CN move their Hamilton yard? It's conveniently located close to their Hamilton clients. Why would the city of Hamilton want to kick out a major employer who also probably pays taxes to the municipality? Get rid of the CN yard in Hamilton and you'll probably see more trucks in the area.

I've said it before, and will say it again - electrification need not prevent the use of freight trains. Hi-cube boxcars, autoracks and double-stack container cars run every single day in the Philadelphia area under the wire. There are other locations on the Northeast Corridor where freights run multiple times a day in concert with the hourly-plus Amtrak trains and even more frequent commuter trains. There is nothing physically preventing CN and CP allowing someone else to string up overhead other than their own stubbornness.

That's cool and all. But what's the point of electrifying the network if it won't lead to faster trains and service improvements because the trains still have to stop and wait for freight to go by? I thought one of the major selling points of electrification was faster trains and more frequency?

What's the point of electrifying only a portion of the line? Extending that logic, they shouldn't electrify the Lakeshore West line, the single most-used line on the network. It's a silly position to hang your hat on, and thankfully is not one that Metrolinx or the government is taking.

Because if electrifying doesn't lead to faster trains and more frequency then what's the point? This just becomes a vanity project, because we care too much what the rest of the world thinks about us

How much more improved service can Metrolinx get out of their diesel fleet by making substantial improvements to the existing rail infrastructure? If diesel trains are forced to slow down between Aldershot and West Harbour due to the curvature of the track, why would this not apply to electric trains as well? In regards to the Kitchener line, what about moving the Georgetown layover yard so trains are no longer forced to travel slow due to their proximity to the layover yard? Does there need to be more grade separation on all lines to allow for faster trains?

Metrolinx should assess where all the chokepoints are on their network that forces their trains to slow down and resolve those issues. Once completed, it would make more sense to start electrifying the network.

 

[adys123]

Where would CN move their Hamilton yard? It's conveniently located close to their Hamilton clients. Why would the city of Hamilton want to kick out a major employer who also probably pays taxes to the municipality? Get rid of the CN yard in Hamilton and you'll probably see more trucks in the area.

That's cool and all. But what's the point of electrifying the network if it won't lead to faster trains and service improvements because the trains still have to stop and wait for freight to go by? I thought one of the major selling points of electrification was faster trains and more frequency?

Because if electrifying doesn't lead to faster trains and more frequency then what's the point? This just becomes a vanity project, because we care too much what the rest of the world thinks about us

How much more improved service can Metrolinx get out of their diesel fleet by making substantial improvements to the existing rail infrastructure? If diesel trains are forced to slow down between Aldershot and West Harbour due to the curvature of the track, why would this not apply to electric trains as well? In regards to the Kitchener line, what about moving the Georgetown layover yard so trains are no longer forced to travel slow due to their proximity to the layover yard? Does there need to be more grade separation on all lines to allow for faster trains?

Metrolinx should assess where all the chokepoints are on their network that forces their trains to slow down and resolve those issues. Once completed, it would make more sense to start electrifying the network.

Because it will, electrification in it's current iteration is only happening on MX owned corridors so the full benefits that you've listed can be achieved.

 

[Bojaxs]

Because it will, electrification in it's current iteration is only happening on MX owned corridors so the full benefits that you've listed can be achieved.

So no Milton, Richmond Hill or Kitchener west of Bramalea. No midtown either. So much for GO trains being a regional service.

 

[adys123]

So no Milton, Richmond Hill or Kitchener west of Bramalea. No midtown either. So much for GO trains being a regional service.

I mean aside from the circumstances surrounding Milton, most of the high ridership routes and stations are covered by the program. Kitchener doesn't need 2-way all-day 15-minute service right this minute.

 

[Northern Light]

So no Milton, Richmond Hill or Kitchener west of Bramalea. No midtown either. So much for GO trains being a regional service.

The bolded is rather over-the-top.

You can certainly advocate for different priority projects or greater funding, fair game. But you harm your own case with such extreme statements that are contrary to the facts.

 

[Bojaxs]

The bolded is rather over-the-top.

You can certainly advocate for different priority projects or greater funding, fair game. But you harm your own case with such extreme statements that contrary to the facts.

So if someone wants to get from Oshawa to Milton, they can zoom into Union on an electric train, but then they have to wait around Union for an hour or more for the next Milton train to arrive. How is this sufficient regional service? Probably would have been quicker to just drive their car.

 

[T3G]

The bolded is rather over-the-top.

You can certainly advocate for different priority projects or greater funding, fair game. But you harm your own case with such extreme statements that contrary to the facts.

Especially considering that in its current iteration, GO is already very much a regional service, and will continue to be, even after GO expansion. The addition of infill stations and improved frequencies will certainly be useful to city dwellers, but it certainly won't turn into a second TTC.