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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

felix123

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Yes but it would be a bad idea.
Ominous.
You know your trains, so I'll take your word for it. The GO network sucks as it is though. Why must every logical change like a bit of interlining be so hard?
Sorry, just got back from a trip to Europe, so it's going to be hard for me to accept the glacial pace of change here until my memories, of how easy it was to get around, fade away.
 

Urban Sky

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Ominous.
You know your trains, so I'll take your word for it. The GO network sucks as it is though. Why must every logical change like a bit of interlining be so hard?
Sorry, just got back from a trip to Europe, so it's going to be hard for me to accept the glacial pace of change here until my memories, of how easy it was to get around, fade away.
Given that Milton-Union will remain a shared corridor with very constrained frequencies, whereas Bramalea-Union is a dedicated corridor where GO can add trains until it clogs up, it would be a bad idea to have Union-Bloor passengers take capacity from passengers who depend on the limited GO services to Milton. I would even assume that GO would ban travel between Union and Kipling (at least for the busiest trains), if there was a way for them to control who boards their trains...
 

sacred

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Given that Milton-Union will remain a shared corridor with very constrained frequencies, whereas Bramalea-Union is a dedicated corridor where GO can add trains until it clogs up, it would be a bad idea to have Union-Bloor passengers take capacity from passengers who depend on the limited GO services to Milton. I would even assume that GO would ban travel between Union and Kipling (at least for the busiest trains), if there was a way for them to control who boards their trains...
I would simply ban boarding at a Milton Bloor platform (unless one day capacity isn’t an issue).
 

Urban Sky

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I would simply ban boarding at a Milton Bloor platform (unless one day capacity isn’t an issue).
Unfortunately, inbound trains are not the problem here (if the train is full, no Bloor folks can board anyways and they'll prefer less full Bramalea-Union trains anyways): it's when Milton passengers struggle to get into their train at Union because of Bloor passengers clogging up the train...
 

nfitz

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Unfortunately, inbound trains are not the problem here (if the train is full, no Bloor folks can board anyways and they'll prefer less full Bramalea-Union trains anyways): it's when Milton passengers struggle to get into their train at Union because of Bloor passengers clogging up the train...
This shouldn't be a problem though once they go to full RER.
 

Northern Light

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Is there any plan to get to 4tph on Milton? I thought that such plans were contingent to the Missing Link...

There is a past, never implemented plan to expand capacity in that corridor. I'm not sure what level of frequency that plan would have delivered.

There has been much hinting and teasing that Mx and CP have some sort of understanding on allowing additional service in that corridor, presumably with at least some infrastructure investment.
But what investment and the extent of any improvements have not been publicly disclosed.

Certainly, 4-tracking the corridor, is feasible, if expensive, and would, almost certainly allow 4ph service or something close.

But whether anything so grandiose is in the offing is again unknown.

I would expect something to be announced ahead of the next provincial election; and follow-on work to be a campaign promise.

The Federal gov't has committed some $$ (undetermined amount and timeline) to expanding capacity for the Milton Corridor.

 

nfitz

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Is there any plan to get to 4tph on Milton? I thought that such plans were contingent to the Missing Link...
That was the pre-election promise. It's also been in the RTP for years - though probably in the 25-year timeframe (which never seems to get any closer in each edition!)

I've never heard it related to the missing link - that seems to be one of the Urban Toronto fantasy ideas, for the CP line.

The ROW is quite wide. They just need more tracks. CP doesn't need more than two.
 

ShonTron

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My only question is:

Where would Milton Line passengers go to where getting off at Bloor provides a benefit compared to getting off at Kipling? The only answers I can think of are the immediate surroundings and maybe the 504 and 505 Streetcars. Maybe Weston.

Kipling Station has a direct airport link, and once Woodbine Station opens, a direct bus link to there as well.
 

nfitz

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Where would Milton Line passengers go to where getting off at Bloor provides a benefit compared to getting off at Kipling? The only answers I can think of are the immediate surroundings and maybe the 504 and 505 Streetcars. Maybe Weston.
To the Kitchener line, the Barrie line (which is only a 5-minute walk to the new station on Bloor - about the same as the current walk from Bloor station to Dundas West station). Also would shave some significant time off trips to University of Toronto.
 

Krypto98

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To be honest I can see Stratford getting more use out of it than London. For them having significantly another means of accessing Kitchener, Guelph and beyond is undeniably a net positive. Plus maybe if they need to I wonder if they could maybe fit in a new yard in Stratford
A while back I did propose an extension of the kitchener line up to Stratford. The average speed out of Stratford to kitchener is a bit better than London - Stratford. There is only CN568 and GEXR 581 that use the line as freight.
 

smallspy

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Could they be installed?
It would be tricky.

I'm honestly not sure that there is a long enough stretch of flat area to allow for a set of high speed (#20) crossovers between the point at which the grade begins for the Weston Sub underpass and the north ends of the platforms at Bloor. Slower-speed crossovers could be used sure, but then you get into the resultant reduction of capacity and increase in time required to traverse them.

And then there's the whole issue of capacity. The Weston Sub currently has a humongous amount of built-in capacity sure, way more than is currently being used. But is there enough capacity to operate 15 minute UPX service _AND_ 15 minute Kitchener Line service _AND_ Milton Line trains _AND_ whatever form Smartrack ends up taking _AND_ any additional VIA trains that they want to run up that way? It really would be cutting things extremely fine.

This shouldn't be a problem though once they go to full RER.
Prior to the first lockdown, GO was already running an approximately 10 minute service on the Milton Line during the morning rush hour.

How much better service would you envision out there with RER?

Dan
 

Nomad_87

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A while back I did propose an extension of the kitchener line up to Stratford. The average speed out of Stratford to kitchener is a bit better than London - Stratford. There is only CN568 and GEXR 581 that use the line as freight.
Makes sense. Wonder actually if they can get away with having a yard in Stratford instead of Baden. And maybe Goderich excursion train. Jk…. Unless 😳
 

Krypto98

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It would be tricky.

I'm honestly not sure that there is a long enough stretch of flat area to allow for a set of high speed (#20) crossovers between the point at which the grade begins for the Weston Sub underpass and the north ends of the platforms at Bloor. Slower-speed crossovers could be used sure, but then you get into the resultant reduction of capacity and increase in time required to traverse them.

And then there's the whole issue of capacity. The Weston Sub currently has a humongous amount of built-in capacity sure, way more than is currently being used. But is there enough capacity to operate 15 minute UPX service _AND_ 15 minute Kitchener Line service _AND_ Milton Line trains _AND_ whatever form Smartrack ends up taking _AND_ any additional VIA trains that they want to run up that way? It really would be cutting things extremely fine.


Prior to the first lockdown, GO was already running an approximately 10 minute service on the Milton Line during the morning rush hour.

How much better service would you envision out there with RER?

Dan
Isn't the speed limit through the curve from the Weston Sub to Galt sub at 30 mph? There is already a Crossover there but it's for track 6 to track 5. The only viable option I see is to put a side platform on the west end of track 5. However I don't think metrolinx thinks it's worth the cost and I think they probably want to double track the milton line track through bloor station, making it 6 tracks
20211024_021242.jpg
 

smallspy

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Isn't the speed limit through the curve from the Weston Sub to Galt sub at 30 mph? There is already a Crossover there but it's for track 6 to track 5. The only viable option I see is to put a side platform on the west end of track 5. However I don't think metrolinx thinks it's worth the cost and I think they probably want to double track the milton line track through bloor station, making it 6 tracksView attachment 357816
There are two curves on the connection to the CP trackage - I don't have track maps for them, but I seem to recall that the inner curve is good for 20mph, while the outer is allowed 45 or 50mph. Yes, they currently combine back into one track around the Wallace pedestrian bridge.

The long-term goals for the GO-owned stretch of that track are to have it 2 tracks all the way down from The Junction to Strachan/USRC. This would allow for the largest amount of flexibility in scheduling and hopefully help prevent delays on the CP-owned track for when the time comes to start runnning bidirectionally. And doing so would preclude the installation of a platform at Bloor unless a not-inconsequential amount of land is purchased on the west side of the corridor.

Dan
 

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