News   May 24, 2022
 293     0 
News   May 24, 2022
 479     1 
News   May 20, 2022
 877     0 

GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

nfitz

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
24,795
Reaction score
5,348
Location
Toronto
Is there any plan to get to 4tph on Milton? I thought that such plans were contingent to the Missing Link...
That was the pre-election promise. It's also been in the RTP for years - though probably in the 25-year timeframe (which never seems to get any closer in each edition!)

I've never heard it related to the missing link - that seems to be one of the Urban Toronto fantasy ideas, for the CP line.

The ROW is quite wide. They just need more tracks. CP doesn't need more than two.
 

ShonTron

Moderator
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
11,264
Reaction score
5,925
Location
Ward 13 - Toronto Centre
My only question is:

Where would Milton Line passengers go to where getting off at Bloor provides a benefit compared to getting off at Kipling? The only answers I can think of are the immediate surroundings and maybe the 504 and 505 Streetcars. Maybe Weston.

Kipling Station has a direct airport link, and once Woodbine Station opens, a direct bus link to there as well.
 

nfitz

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
24,795
Reaction score
5,348
Location
Toronto
Where would Milton Line passengers go to where getting off at Bloor provides a benefit compared to getting off at Kipling? The only answers I can think of are the immediate surroundings and maybe the 504 and 505 Streetcars. Maybe Weston.
To the Kitchener line, the Barrie line (which is only a 5-minute walk to the new station on Bloor - about the same as the current walk from Bloor station to Dundas West station). Also would shave some significant time off trips to University of Toronto.
 

Krypto98

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 19, 2019
Messages
331
Reaction score
617
To be honest I can see Stratford getting more use out of it than London. For them having significantly another means of accessing Kitchener, Guelph and beyond is undeniably a net positive. Plus maybe if they need to I wonder if they could maybe fit in a new yard in Stratford
A while back I did propose an extension of the kitchener line up to Stratford. The average speed out of Stratford to kitchener is a bit better than London - Stratford. There is only CN568 and GEXR 581 that use the line as freight.
 

smallspy

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
4,833
Reaction score
5,553
Could they be installed?
It would be tricky.

I'm honestly not sure that there is a long enough stretch of flat area to allow for a set of high speed (#20) crossovers between the point at which the grade begins for the Weston Sub underpass and the north ends of the platforms at Bloor. Slower-speed crossovers could be used sure, but then you get into the resultant reduction of capacity and increase in time required to traverse them.

And then there's the whole issue of capacity. The Weston Sub currently has a humongous amount of built-in capacity sure, way more than is currently being used. But is there enough capacity to operate 15 minute UPX service _AND_ 15 minute Kitchener Line service _AND_ Milton Line trains _AND_ whatever form Smartrack ends up taking _AND_ any additional VIA trains that they want to run up that way? It really would be cutting things extremely fine.

This shouldn't be a problem though once they go to full RER.
Prior to the first lockdown, GO was already running an approximately 10 minute service on the Milton Line during the morning rush hour.

How much better service would you envision out there with RER?

Dan
 

Nomad_87

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
138
Reaction score
296
A while back I did propose an extension of the kitchener line up to Stratford. The average speed out of Stratford to kitchener is a bit better than London - Stratford. There is only CN568 and GEXR 581 that use the line as freight.
Makes sense. Wonder actually if they can get away with having a yard in Stratford instead of Baden. And maybe Goderich excursion train. Jk…. Unless 😳
 

Krypto98

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 19, 2019
Messages
331
Reaction score
617
It would be tricky.

I'm honestly not sure that there is a long enough stretch of flat area to allow for a set of high speed (#20) crossovers between the point at which the grade begins for the Weston Sub underpass and the north ends of the platforms at Bloor. Slower-speed crossovers could be used sure, but then you get into the resultant reduction of capacity and increase in time required to traverse them.

And then there's the whole issue of capacity. The Weston Sub currently has a humongous amount of built-in capacity sure, way more than is currently being used. But is there enough capacity to operate 15 minute UPX service _AND_ 15 minute Kitchener Line service _AND_ Milton Line trains _AND_ whatever form Smartrack ends up taking _AND_ any additional VIA trains that they want to run up that way? It really would be cutting things extremely fine.


Prior to the first lockdown, GO was already running an approximately 10 minute service on the Milton Line during the morning rush hour.

How much better service would you envision out there with RER?

Dan
Isn't the speed limit through the curve from the Weston Sub to Galt sub at 30 mph? There is already a Crossover there but it's for track 6 to track 5. The only viable option I see is to put a side platform on the west end of track 5. However I don't think metrolinx thinks it's worth the cost and I think they probably want to double track the milton line track through bloor station, making it 6 tracks
20211024_021242.jpg
 

smallspy

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
4,833
Reaction score
5,553
Isn't the speed limit through the curve from the Weston Sub to Galt sub at 30 mph? There is already a Crossover there but it's for track 6 to track 5. The only viable option I see is to put a side platform on the west end of track 5. However I don't think metrolinx thinks it's worth the cost and I think they probably want to double track the milton line track through bloor station, making it 6 tracksView attachment 357816
There are two curves on the connection to the CP trackage - I don't have track maps for them, but I seem to recall that the inner curve is good for 20mph, while the outer is allowed 45 or 50mph. Yes, they currently combine back into one track around the Wallace pedestrian bridge.

The long-term goals for the GO-owned stretch of that track are to have it 2 tracks all the way down from The Junction to Strachan/USRC. This would allow for the largest amount of flexibility in scheduling and hopefully help prevent delays on the CP-owned track for when the time comes to start runnning bidirectionally. And doing so would preclude the installation of a platform at Bloor unless a not-inconsequential amount of land is purchased on the west side of the corridor.

Dan
 

Garuda

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
285
Reaction score
571
Makes sense. Wonder actually if they can get away with having a yard in Stratford instead of Baden. And maybe Goderich excursion train. Jk…. Unless 😳
With Stratford being A very important railway hub and a mayor who’s eager for more service and plenty of land I see the town pushing hard to build a yard there.
 

ShonTron

Moderator
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
11,264
Reaction score
5,925
Location
Ward 13 - Toronto Centre
Stratford has a large underused freight yard from the time it was a busy divisional point for trains to Owen Sound, Toronto, London, Southampton, Durham, Paris, Goderich, and Kincardine, so yes, the space is there. GEXR still uses it for its trains to Goderich and to Exeter.

It makes more sense in many ways than a greenfield site at Baden, but I doubt Metrolinx would commit to it until the end of the pilot period.
 

EnviroTO

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
1,548
Location
Yonge & Mt.Pleasant
If they really wanted a Milton platform at Bloor GO they could rebuild the westernmost rail bridge over Bloor to have space between track 5 & future track 6 so an island platform could be built directly south of Bloor with an overhead connection.

However, for the sake of maximum connectivity and improved travel times I don't think the Milton line should stop at Bloor but rather one station should be built south of where Barrie line joins the corridor at Lansdowne (Parkdale GO) where all lines would stop. This would allow transfer to the Kitchener line if you want to go to Weston or Liberty Village, or the Barrie line to go to Rutherford or Spadina. If someone on the Milton line wanted to get into Line 2 they could have done that one stop earlier at Kipling.
 

tsm1072

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Messages
180
Reaction score
534
If they really wanted a Milton platform at Bloor GO they could rebuild the westernmost rail bridge over Bloor to have space between track 5 & future track 6 so an island platform could be built directly south of Bloor with an overhead connection.

However, for the sake of maximum connectivity and improved travel times I don't think the Milton line should stop at Bloor but rather one station should be built south of where Barrie line joins the corridor at Lansdowne (Parkdale GO) where all lines would stop. This would allow transfer to the Kitchener line if you want to go to Weston or Liberty Village, or the Barrie line to go to Rutherford or Spadina. If someone on the Milton line wanted to get into Line 2 they could have done that one stop earlier at Kipling.
Isn't Liberty Village (King West) Station going to serve that purpose? Liberty village also provides a destination and more transfers. I can't really see a justification for an intermediate stop between Bloor and Liberty Village.
 

EnviroTO

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
1,548
Location
Yonge & Mt.Pleasant
Isn't Liberty Village (King West) Station going to serve that purpose? Liberty village also provides a destination and more transfers. I can't really see a justification for an intermediate stop between Bloor and Liberty Village.
There isn't space in the corridor to serve all the lines at Liberty Village where they will be able to serve 4 of 8 tracks at most. This means that Bloor, Liberty Village, and Spadina can't provide an effective transfer point between Milton, Kitchener, Bolton, and Barrie services and some trips will require going all the way to Union and turning back. Alternatively they need to widen the corridor by expropriating parking space behind 15-47 Sudbury St (maybe put in a level of parking garage), and knock down 99 Sudbury, and put the sound barrier wall right up against the sidewalk west of there.
 

Bordercollie

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 20, 2020
Messages
854
Reaction score
600
Stratford has a large underused freight yard from the time it was a busy divisional point for trains to Owen Sound, Toronto, London, Southampton, Durham, Paris, Goderich, and Kincardine, so yes, the space is there. GEXR still uses it for its trains to Goderich and to Exeter.

It makes more sense in many ways than a greenfield site at Baden, but I doubt Metrolinx would commit to it until the end of the pilot period.
They could extend the yard track past the crossing to allow it to be used as a passing tracks to allow trains and o pass each other and use the single platform. This way they can increase frequency on the line with minimal investment.
 

nfitz

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
24,795
Reaction score
5,348
Location
Toronto
Prior to the first lockdown, GO was already running an approximately 10 minute service on the Milton Line during the morning rush hour.

How much better service would you envision out there with RER?
Shoulder, counter-peak, mid-day, evening, and weekends.

If the recent funding promise wasn't about those, I'm confused what it's for. I don't know how you can do that (other than perhaps some infrequent mid-day/weekend/evening trains) without adding 2 tracks.

Some peak runs to Galt wouldn't hurt either. Which might be easier to negotiate, if GO get's off the Milton to Junction track completely.
 

Top